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I believe we should start to enforce the Visual Novel rule more often on /a/. There are dozens of topics that are rarely met with negativity on /a/, despite pertaining to otaku culture, but not anime/manga, that aren't allowed to slide; there's no reason we should allow a topic that constituted one of the main factors for the creation of a new one solely because of reception.
It's been on the rules for a long time, and there's a specific ban request for said subject. I propose a stricter enforcement of such rule, although considering exceptions such as anime adaptations together with the Visual Novels (however, not leaving space when the discussion is solely about the VN, leaving the anime completely intact and forgotten).

>>2941
I disagree with that view, since VNs were moved BECAUSE of negative reception. It's all about reception. Reception is incredibly important. Toonami would be on /a/ if people took well to it. /jp/ wouldn't exist if people never complained about VNs, Touhou, etc.

However, the fact of the matter is that there ARE other boards dedicated to VNs. I feel that the rule should indeed be observed, but I don't think it's so serious that it requires particularly strict enforcement. There are other, more alarming issues.

Also, I love HxH.

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>>2946
The issue to why I do not like taking reception very seriously is due to the fact that you could fit in a ton of topics on /a/ that would be well received, but fit into other boards like a glove (figures, VNs, etc.). Yes, it is not an alarming issue. Those would be the current shitposting in Watamote threads, the seemingly endless iM@S CG Generals(no, /a/, a cellphone game isn't an anime, even if it has a couple of manga here and there), and so on. We've been letting VNs slide for a long time, with no particular enforcement, and letting the "/a/ - my friends are here" crowd flock in isn't a particularly good idea.

Here is a real question, lets say we kick out any VN discussion that doesn't have an anime but allow stuff like Fate/stay and such to stay? I think the VN discussion lends to the anime adaptation threads discussion and keeps them from getting boring, so if the threads are gonna be on the board anyway we might as well let the VN discussion too. Also another idea would be to send them to /vg/, but I think that getting some new users into /jp/ even though /jp/ will hate it might do it some good but this could only happen if the /jp/ janitors are willing to put up with fighting the board which I doubt any of you would.
Also I've voiced my opinion before on the general threads, I think the idolm@s fans should be kicked off if it isn't anime related. I hate the key general as well, there is no reason for either thread in my opinion and all it does is add pointless shit being reported and more work for janitors/mods. The thing is even if we bring heavy moderation up against this they are just going to evade and continue to have the threads during times when there's no moderation so even though I hate them and many on the board hate them, unless these people decide that they are going to leave the board I don't see us getting rid of them anytime soon unless more people ;_;.
The VNs though, we could try to enforce more on.
But maybe the rule should be changed to tell them to take it to /vg/.

Wouldn't surprise me if "I want to fuck Yayoi" has been said over a million times.

>>2955
Looking at the foolz archive and searching for the phrase "I want to fuck Yayoi" returns 55 pages of results. With 25 posts per page that is 1375 times the phrase has been posted on /a/. Results go as far back as to Feb 01 2012. That means the exact same phrase has been posted to /a/ 2.5 times per day.

Truly, they want to fuck Yayoi.

>>2954
>if the /jp/ janitors are willing to put up with fighting the board

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last. Far as I'm concerned you can go ahead with a massive redirection campaign and disturb the status quo in /jp/. At the moment things are beyond stagnant and protecting the non-shitposter userbase is now a pipe dream. Considering this, the best we can hope for is to disturb the current situation so deeply that it forces a new shift in userbase. Anything will be better than the ongoing state of the same threads and the same spammers treating the board as their playground.

In other words, it's time for /jp/ to perform the duty it was created for: Take on the misc. content of /a/ and make the board about anime and manga again. Don't stop on account of the /jp/ team, we can take on hell.

>>2954
>if the /jp/ janitors are willing to put up with fighting the board
I say bring it on! I actually like seeing new people with new discussion and new contributions.

>>2948
Even so, I feel that VNs have some historical relevance on /a/ and I can't bring myself to be as Draconian about them as I would be for other material. Your point has been noted though, and I'll do my part. But tell me, are there certain titles in particular you find to be a concern? Aside from the usual T-M content, I'm not sure I've run into too many threads about VNs without an anime/manga adaptation. Could be tunnel vision on my part.

>>2961
T-M content has a lot of VN discussion, but this is unstoppable, unless we really stomp them out. The Majikoi and Key generals are quite a bit of a problem, since the anime adaptations are barely discussed, and the majikoi fandom circlejerks nonstop over the same girls everytime. Muv Luv might be worth doing a check, also, since they haven't shown any sign of stopping. Saya no Uta, Ever17, Katawa Shoujo and other Visual Novels with no anime adaptation should be insta deleted; they have no place in the board, since they have nothing to do with anime. This is my stance over the whole issue.

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>>2966
I'd also like to note that it's not me being awfully strict or anything like that. It's just that moot created a whole board for non-anime japanese topics, and letting them go back is just redundant and worsens the state of /jp/, which is starving due to stagnation. New users would be a blessing; but prepare, the backlash will be quite intense for the first few days, and the old users won't stop whinning for a while.

>>2966
KS is pretty much deleted on sight, but mostly due to reception. I agree more or less with Majikoi and Muv-Luv. Key, I'm not so sure, since I usually see them discuss the series as a whole rather than circlejerk over the VN (particularly in the case of Clannad, I think many might even prefer the anime).

>>2967
The reason behind /jp/'s stagnation has always been more along the lines of lacking topics to discuss, rather than lacking users. Hell, I feel like /jp/ was more successful during 2009-2010, when it presumably had far less people than it does now. Forcing a population increase would do more harm than good.

... Although I'd like to say that's still the case today, it's obviously not. The state of things over there these days is so damn bad. You know what they say, desperate times call for desperate measures.

I'm in favor of changing the status quo, and pushing VNs and other ancillary content to /jp/, but I want to make sure that there is a clear consensus before any change is made.

I think /a/ needs to be more focused on anime and less on miscellaneous Japanese things, and I think that /jp/ needs more posters and a clearer purpose for existing. If virtually all /jp/ content is allowed on /a/, then why do we even have /jp/?

If all the /a/ and /jp/ janitors, and concerned mods could chime in here with their two cents on the matter, I'd appreciate it. You guys are the experts on the subject, and together you have the best shot at coming up with a new policy that benefits both boards.

If you want to suggest new rules/guidelines, or changes to the existing ones, please put them in point form. For example:

• Mods = Fags
• Bring back Snacks
• More Hot Pockets

From there we can come up with a concise list of changes that everyone can support (or perhaps just decide to stick with the status quo).

>>3042
As we all know it's a fine line between what goes in /jp/ and what goes in /a/.
So here is the policy change I gather that the janitors for both boards would like to see and I agree with this.
I believe that with series like fate/stay it's hard to say if whatever fate/stay thread happens to be on the board at the time
will be VN related all the way through, it has 3 different anime which is more than enough to keep it in /a/ so fate/stay will be allowed to stay regardless.
Series like majikoi threads as a janitor pointed out are only about the translation of the VN and how close it is to being finished.
This type of thread belongs in /jp/, /jp/ translates stuff, that's why they exist. contribute to /jp/ with this. If nothing else it was get rid of some of /jp/'s bordem (kek).
Yes we will allow some VN discussion but if there is no sign of anime discussion we will remove your thread and should take it to /vg/ or /jp/.
/jp/ as a board is suffering right now and they could use some new people.
Also I have seen some complaints coming from users in /q/ about this, and the mu-luv thread got 3 reports today and I 404d it. So there's people on the board
that feel the same way about this.
I believe enforcing on the this will do nothing but strengthen /a/'s faith in it's moderation to know the difference between threads that could be anime related and threads that just flate out aren't.

Something must be put forth to the users though and we all know KISS is the best way to talk to 4chan.
I would suggest something along these lines.
Any VN series that has large potential for anime related discussion is allowed on /a/.
Any series that is primarly VN related discussion/discussion of current translation projects belongs on /jp/.
Western VN discussion (KS) belongs on /vg/ as always.

I'm not an /a/ janitor so feel free to take this all with a grain of salt, but this effort sounds like its being directed at the wrong areas. The issue I'm seeing talked about mostly is "we're having too many Majiko/MuvRuv/etc threads, so we need to focus on removing these VN threads." To me, it should read more like "we're having too many Majiko/MuvRuv/etc threads, so we need to focus on pruning of all these pseudo-generals."

Playing Anon's advocate, this seems like a confusing move. VNs come up pretty frequently as they're often related to anime (and to maybe a lesser extent, manga). Now posters have to ask "will my Fate thread will be deleted because it's considered 'not anime enough'?" and "how long will this policy stick?" Maybe I like the threads, maybe I don't, but in the end there's probably going to be arguing about this new topic that will inevitably bring /q/ into the matter, which is never fun for /a/.

Playing Siztra's advocate, seems like you're opening up some new wounds to exploit. Sakurafish threads are now a prime target to continue harassing now that you can say "its from a VN, you got no argument for them besides 'le board culture XDDD'," and as a bonus any instigator would have the support of the now-disgruntled userbase.

The support the /a/ janitors and mods get is something I'm pretty envious of on /v/ and /vg/ and this all seems like it would do more to create enemies than bring in allies. To repeat, I might be unfamiliar with the issue but if you changed your policy from "move VN threads out of /a/" to "move generals/long term discussion out of /a/" you could benefit from working from existing policy (that /a/ doesn't seem to disagree to) and still get those certain threads without worrying about some new policy working or not.

>>3044
The issue here is that our aim isn't to remove these generals just because they are generals. I will be copy-pastying the explanation I gave to another mod here so I won't have to type everything once again.


What I'm mainly worried about these miscellaneous japanese topics being introduced on /a/, is that it essentially turns /jp/ into a useless board. Every board in 4chan has at least one purpose (not considering /s4s/ and others), and one topic that will ultimately fall there. But /jp/ has been created to hold a plethora of topics, that were proliferating all over /a/ in 2008, turning the board essentially into 2D/Random. What's currently happening there is that these same topics that were supposed to stay on /jp/, have again found a way to return to the board, through acceptance of users (that will naturally happen, since most /a/nons are not only interested in anime, but in otaku culture) and almost no action taken by the moderation. Regardless of the silly elitism and fear many /jp/ers hold towards /a/nons, we can't simply let the board live just because it will flood /a/ with touhou in case the board is deleted. We can't simply kill it's purpose of existence because some /a/nons want to talk about japanese culture topics with other /a/nons. This is what I'm against. Essentially turning the board into a useless wasteland filled with Touhou and untranslated VNs discussion, with a few misc. topics.

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(cont.)

And here's the thing. Are we just going to allow VN threads that house no anime discussion, just because users accept it? Of course they will, they watch anime, after all. They are deeply tied into the core of otaku culture. It's just natural that they'll want to explore other parts of it, such as Visual Novels and Action Figures. But, is this right? Literally accepting the subject matters that were the reason for /jp/'s existence because users said it's alright? In my opinion, no. Moot created /jp/ for Otaku Culture, and /a/ for Anime and Manga. Just like anime discussion is 99% of the times forbidden on /jp/ (usually accepting old anime threads, and even then, very rarely), even if many users watch anime and can discuss about it, we shouldn't allow VN threads to bloom and hold such solid fanbases and threads on /a/ just because it has an anime, that has/hasn't aired already/yet.

Here's my suggestion:

● Untranslated Japanese VN discussion goes on /jp/.
● Western VNs should be posted on /vg/.
● Translated Japanese VNs can go on either /jp/ or /vg/.
● Discussions of anime adaptations of VNs go on /a/. Threads can contain relevant discussion of the VN, but the focus should be on the anime.


Other things to think about:

● Vocaloid threads (/jp/?)
● iDOLM@STER games (/jp/? /vg/?)
● Buyfag/Merchandise (/jp/?)
● Other topics that should be addressed?

I am by no means an expert on this subject matter (inb4 >>>/v/), so please tell me if I'm completely out-to-lunch here.

>>3047
>●Discussions of anime adaptations of VNs go on /a/. Threads can contain relevant discussion of the VN, but the focus should be on the anime.
This will mean the purging of the current VN generals, such as Grisaia, Majikoi, and Muv Luv. Some Fate threads might have to be deleted since you can clearly distinguish most of the times when they want to talk about the anime, and when they want to talk about the Visual Novel.

>● Vocaloid threads (/jp/?)
Yes. There is really no discussion regarding this case.
● iDOLM@STER games (/jp/? /vg/?)
Ideally, yes. But they are very stubborn and refuse to leave. They use the current manga being translated as an excuse to stay. If that is valid or not, it's a whole other thing.

● Buyfag/Merchandise (/jp/?)
Essentially, they should go to either /jp/ or /toy/, but removing them will be quite a bother.

For now, if we're going to do anything, it's best that we focus first on Visual Novels. The rest doesn't have as much prominent discussion as them.

>>3048
>This will mean the purging of the current VN generals, such as Grisaia, Majikoi, and Muv Luv. Some Fate threads might have to be deleted since you can clearly distinguish most of the times when they want to talk about the anime, and when they want to talk about the Visual Novel.

When it comes to enforcement of this, we don't have to be complete nazis, but in general we really ought to stick to the rule of "anime on /a/, VNs on /jp/".

What I want to avoid is the cases where there is an anime series announced (or even rumored) for a VN at some undisclosed date in the future, and somehow that means that now we can talk about that VN on /a/ despite having no actual anime to talk about. Similarly, just because a VN has a series shouldn't mean you can have a thread completely about an anime series on /jp/.

My ultimate goal here is to make /a/ less of 'Anime/Random', and give /jp/ more of a reason for existing.

Another point is imagedumps. Isn't that why /c/ exists?

>>3047
>● Vocaloid threads (/jp/?)
Absolutely belongs on /jp/ and is quite welcome there.

>● iDOLM@STER games (/jp/? /vg/?)
Agree with >>3048 It's a technical belonging, sort of like Naruto on /a/. Though it's not as harshly hated. I see no reason to not allow it.

>● Buyfag/Merchandise (/jp/?)
Unless you want to lift the rule on /toy/ about no Japanese figs, then it would seem /jp/ is the right place for this.

>>3059
There is countless image dumps throughout the day enforcing on it will take my energy than I want to put forth. People on /a/ like to keep /a/ populated with images, they can't help their autism.
The buyfag threads are fine, they don't cause any problems and I like having them around because it keeps retards who lurk from spouting shit like "/a/ doesn't support the industry".
>Idolm@s
They were asked to leave before and said no.
>Fate/stay or Key
We can just call those out of bounds unless the threads are like horrible.

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Just a reminder: Until we have a set policy that we're ready to announce in some fashion, please stick to the existing policy.

I would still like to get more input on this topic, especially from the mods who focus the most on /a/, including the one who made the mod post pictured.

>>3047
I agree with what is outlined here. I feel that ultimately VNs should be allowed in /jp/. I would prefer not to place too many conditions on it. Enforcement might be a little tedious. I would recommend warning users about discussing Western VNs on /jp/. In that way, these topics could slowly be pushed into /vg/ without being too forceful.

Vocaloid, iDOLM@STER games, Buyfag/Merchandise threads all belong under /jp/. I am not too sure why there should be any objection (except from maybe the userbase).

>>3059
Image dumps on /a/ should be tolerated, however, I find there is more of a problem with these threads being continually bumped. If these threads had normal lifetimes as other threads on /a/, I don't believe it should be an issue. Secondly, I find the quality of images on /a/ may not be suitable for /c/ in terms of taste.

Trap threads are getting out of control.
They're full of circlejerks and people discussing things that should go on /lgbt/.
If you see one of those, feel free to delete it or ban people for off-topic.

>>3177
Well don't send them to /lgbt/. They're starting to get out of hand there, too.

>>3177
Siztra has been known to make them, might explain the type of company in the threads, I agree too though.

Daily SAO threads are a problem too as well as Troll sales threads.

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I think it's time to revive this thread.

/a/ should be about discussing actual anime and manga series. There are tons of other topics that anime & manga fans might enjoy and want to talk about, but if they are not directly related to the discussion of anime & manga, then they should go elsewhere.

For instance, visual novels. Obviously a lot of posters on /a/ enjoy and want to talk about VNs, but these are not anime or manga. Japanese VNs should go on /jp/. There are many cases where a VN has an anime adaptation, and it's perfectly OK to discuss material from the VN in a thread discussing that anime adaptation. However, it is not OK to have a thread devoted to the VN just because there exists an anime adaptation. Threads need to be about the anime.

There are also Japanese games that are of interest to posters on /a/, for instance Kantai Collection/Kancolle. These games might use anime art styles, they might use anime tropes, and they might inspire tons of fan art, but they aren't anime/manga. With Kancolle, there are manga adaptations, and there is an upcoming series, so discussions pertaining to the anime & manga are OK. Also, if a thread devoted to the anime or manga contains discussion about the games, that's OK so long as the thread is primarily about the series, and not merely being used as window dressing to discuss the game. Threads about Japanese language games like this should go on /jp/ or perhaps /vg/.

Another example of a game that some /a/ posters want to talk about is the idolm@ster series. Same thing applies. There are anime & manga adaptations which can be discussed with no issues, and talking about the video game source material in those threads is absolutely fine. Having threads about the game series itself is not. Since there is a currently 'airing' web animation series related to idolm@ster, this shouldn't be a huge issue, as they tend to stick to their generals.

There are lots of examples of things like this; tons of media and games use anime art styles, character archetypes, and typical anime tropes (touhou, mobages, browser games, ccgs, rpgs, etc). Tons of things started as a VN or a game and then were adapted to anime/manga. However, if threads aren't directly related to an anime series or a manga, then it shouldn't be on /a/.

This includes "board culture" threads. As an example: https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/106813219/. "You wake up and you're a girl now" is a pretty common trope in anime, and there are plenty of people on /a/ who wish to be the little girl. Really though, that thread is not related to anime. You could replace the anime style fan art in the OP with a western style picture, and the rest of the thread wouldn't change. The thread isn't about anime or manga, it's just a topic which people who happen enjoy anime & manga also find interesting (in this case, gender swapping).

Now the thread could have been something like "Which manga series had the best portrayal of gender swapping?" or "Why is gender swapping a common theme in anime?". That would have linked the topic directly to discussions of anime & manga, and would've been perfectly fine. But without the thread being based directly in anime or manga, discussion is going to wander all over the place and almost certain to be completely off-topic for the board.

Obviously there are plenty of things that fall within this "board culture" domain, and deciding what stays and what goes is going to be a real minefield to navigate. Some of these threads can simply be directed to another board. For instance monster girl threads.

Lastly, there are a bunch of Japanese culture boards for a reason: to allow people to find what they're interested in more easily, and to allow enough room such that threads about niche topics don't plummet off a fast moving board without getting replies. Basically more boards = more room for slower, higher quality discussions. Cramming everything related to Japanese media on one board, like /a/ naturally tends to want, would mean an incredibly fast moving board where niche topics vanish (meaning only the most mainstream discussions survive). A fast moving board also means that in order to get replies you have to grab people's attention right away, and can't take the time necessary to type a thoughtful high-quality post. This leads to glib, lower quality comments, and the tendency to rely on obnoxious images to grab attention. Speed kills quality, and cramming tons of ancillary topics on /a/ speeds the board up. We need to get users to use the other Japanese media boards, especially /jp/, but also /c/ and /e/.

Things that should go on /jp/:
● Vocaloid threads.
● iDOLM@STER game discussion; discussion of airing or previous anime series is fine.
● Threads started about and/or primarily about VNs.
● Buyfag/Merchandise threads

Things that should go on /c/:
● Threads that are primarily image dumps focused on a particular character or series of the moe art style (which encompasses a lot of modern anime).
● Image dumps focusing on a particular moe theme, which include images from many different series & characters.


Things that should go on /e/:
● Threads that are primarily image dumps focused on a particular character or series, with the focus being on 'lewd' or sexy/suggestive poses.
● Image dumps focusing on a particular lewd theme, which include images from many different series & characters. Meaning, threads talking about a particular body part, pose, that sort of thing. So for example: https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/106814740/

For a complex policy change such as this one, completely silent moderation will be very, very confusing for users. To make these changes as painless as possible for everyone involved, we should try to do so using modposts and locks instead of bans and deletions. Explain the policy calmly and respectfully in a single post (do not reply to or respond to users complaining, or debate the policy, or belittle posters), then direct the users to the correct board, and finally lock the thread. It might be helpful to permasage the thread for a few minutes before modposting, such that the modpost doesn't bump the thread and cause the capcode to attract undue attention. The goal here is to communicate with people who were already following the thread, not to attract gawkers and complainers from /a/ in general who happen to see a modpost on the first page. So for janitors, try to bring problem threads to a mod's attention in cases where you think it might be worthwhile for them to post.

/a/ is not going to want to change; posters on /a/ do not necessarily see the big picture, and do not understand how a "big tent" board where tangentially related topics are kosher inevitably leads to problems. They do understand that the end result of a fast board is undesirable - they experience it every day, but they do not seem to grasp that directing different topics to different boards is meant to prevent any one board from getting too fast in the first place. They will resent us trying to move content they like somewhere else, but the end result will mean slower, higher quality discussion with well thought out posts, and more room for niche topics which would otherwise be drowned out by the flavor-of-the-week, and that will be better for the community overall.

What do you guys think?

>>3742
Attempting to push image dump threads to /c/ won't be a painless process on either end, but if you're going to do it, /c/ welcomes image dumps for any (female) anime characters regardless of "moe art style."

>>3742
You know, with the popularity of generals ever increasing on all boards, the mainstream threads do in fact become generals/fast moving threads and discussion seems to go no where.
With that being said, I feel like the whole website has adopted a "home" board and will not like the transition of moving, because they have established that they can get into discussions in these generals/fast moving threads without having to venture to another board for that topic.
I don't think that for a second this will be easy, but I am for this decision with not only /a/, but the all boards. If you want to talk about video games, come to /v/, but keep the anime in /a/.
Also, the VN have generals on /vg/ already, I don't think asking them to use that would be out of the question, as well as other topics discussed.

>>3742
/a/'s dynamic tends to follow a boom and bust sort of pattern. Once a new season gets underway, post activity rises and there's a lot more on-topic threads focused on seasonal shows and the discussion of their weekly content therein. The quality and nature of that discussion tends to vary greatly depending on the quality of the season, but it generally dominates the 1st page. After a season ends, and for about 1-2 months in that transition period where new shows haven't aired yet or picked up enough steam to really get going, /a/ essentially runs out of things to talk about. No weekly show to discuss -or at least nothing worth talking about- which leaves posters to perpetually revive a thread from some show that has already finished until they can exhaust very possible option for discussion and imagedumps (the infamous madoka general), or go back to talking about kancolle, buyfagging or whatever other 'otaku' hobby that's used to fill the void until there's more anime content to discuss.

This unsteady nature to the production of discussion-worthy content on /a/ is part of what has made it a home to all these things that ought to belong in /jp/, but also reflects necessity. /a/ tends to conduct itself as a board on the topic of the japanese animation industry as a whole, and not just 'anime' because the industry is a constant, and the interrelationships of production and association allow for constant topics for discussion even when there's a lack of new anime content. This is why a lot of things like im@s, vocaloid and sales recieve so much attention. Since these things remain pretty much constant outside of the anime production cycle, the threads will perpetuate themselves with imagedumps in order to maintain a presence during an active season, when interest is low, so that they can become an active home for posters again when a season is over.

Your direction is solid, but be weary of the above in any radical policy shift.

>>3742
I agree on Vocaloid threads and VNs, provided they are not actually related to an anime in any way, but IM@S and Buyfag is going to be a tough sell. Buyfag threads have been around /a/ for a long time, and they're fully aware buyfag threads exist on other boards (and they are aware of /toy/ and so on) and deliberately choose not to go to those places, to discuss anime/manga only related merch. I don't see it as a huge issue, personally, though I do understand the desire to clean up the board these two groups comprise of people who post many other things on /a/, and it could cause real problems. (IM@S has an anime, this will cause complaining)

As for the image dumps which are strictly image dumps, yeah, they _should_ go to /c/. I'm not sure what difference it will make (e.g. "Kirino thread" versus "Oreimo thread") in the long run, or if it's worth making people irrationally angry, but that's not really my call. That said, /c/ is pretty useless right now to most /a/ users. Maybe they'd use /c/ more, or maybe they'd just evade rules and make more general threads, in which case I'm not sure what the purpose would be. Plenty of /a/ users think of /a/ as their stronghold against shitty posting, and since it's more active than /c/ (by far)... It's an incentive problem.

/a/ clearly has more users and more entertaining discussion (this is their perception, anyway)
/c/ is clearly for image dumping, but very little discussion goes on there outside of translation threads or information sharing, there's no general /a/-like banter whatsoever.

So given those two choices, I think users will simply choose /a/ and find some way around this rule.

>>3742
>>3746
as for /e/, I really don't see /a/ users heading over there to talk about specific body parts. I do definitely acknowledge that they are nearly 100% horrible threads that contribute nothing to anything, but again with the incentive issues. The amount of cross-boarders between /c/ and /a/ and /e/ and /a/ is probably not all that large, and since they're determined to talk about these threads on /a/ these rules might just cause more complaining (you mentioned there'd be complaining, but I'm sort of underplaying it. They might just go full /sp/ and talk about the anime gestapo or whatever, I like to think /a/ shitposts less than other boards when it comes to moderation, but hey, you never know)

Also stuff not mentioned but I imagine would fall under these sorts of rules:
Trap threads, loli, maybe exhentai (?), not to make too light of the subject but if you try to take perversion away from /a/ I think it's going to be a bad time. It's just what they do.

I know there is definitely problems on /a/, and maybe shooing some topics away from the board will help to relieve those issues, I don't really know the solutions to those problems so I'm just offering my thoughts on what I think /a/ will just do, as opposed to how /a/ should be ideally. Maybe that /a/ will be better, maybe I'm blowing it all out of proportion. I know a lot of users are tired of the shallow threads and things that don't belong, again, not trying to advocate one way or the other, this is just how I assume they'll behave.

The ideas themselves are not bad, but the userbase has been less than reasonable about stuff like this before.

>>3746
In the many cases where a franchise has a presence in multiple forms of media, like iDOLM@STER for instance, it's perfectly fine to have threads that are devoted to the anime and manga adaptations of that franchise. For instance, I don't want anyone to prevent people from talking about Puchimas!! Puchi Puchi Idolmaster, which just started airing.

But if people are actually just trying to shoehorn in discussion of Vita games or whatnot, then they need to go elsewhere.

Trying to cram every topic on /a/ speeds /a/ up, leading to the chatroom-style low quality comments which have plagued other boards, and causes other boards to suffer from lack of content.

With respect to /c/, do you think it would be helpful if discussion were encouraged there? Right now the current status of /c/ is that it's just for images, and discussion should be on /a/. If /c/ welcomed discussion of moe anime & characters, would that help matters? Right now there are threads on /c/ that are six months old, and simultaneously there are few threads on /a/ that last for 24 hours. Speeding up /c/ and slowing down /a/ would increase the quality and user enjoyment of both boards.

>>3748
I almost wish there were a way to 'move' threads like other traditional forum software, so that people could be invisibly transferred to other boards and it wouldn't cause any real pain, and maybe they'd lurk around the boards where stuff belongs and see they aren't really so bad (I actually do like /c/).

If /c/ had a bigger userbase and had discussions in their dump/generals like /a/ has now, I think it could work, but there's the issue of being newcomers to a comparatively dead board. On /a/ they know they'll get replies pretty quickly, and hey, maybe if there's a bunch of refugees from fanbases on /a/ maybe they will band together and form a nice little community, but I also think it's also a possibility they will just skate the rules and shitpost more.

To make /c/ character threads like /a/ it would require somehow transplanting a good amount of users from /a/ to /c/, and changing /c/ culture (which is really not that deeply rooted so it's probably fine, maybe somebody will disagree) to reflect /a/'s... tastes.

People make 'my waifu' threads and <character> threads partly to appreciate their characters, but also just to call people's opinions shit and have a shitpostingly good time. It's weird, I know it, but I've been a part of them before. Once it becomes an echo chamber like some /c/ threads people find far less to talk about.

>>3749
/a/ users coming to /c/ are going to have a lot of growing pains; even if you encourage discussion there, I don't think the kind of character discussion /a/ is used to is at all appropriate for /c/'s board culture. Discussion in general being "allowed" on /c/ isn't a concern if you ask me, but /a/ users would have to exercise some restraint.

>>3742
I see nothing I object to in this post, I'm all for anything that will help /a/ stay on topic.

>>3745
>the threads will perpetuate themselves with imagedumps in order to maintain a presence during an active season, when interest is low, so that they can become an active home for posters again when a season is over.

That's the problem, isn't it? Threads should not become someone's home on a board. All these accomplish is spawning tripfags and a couple dozen of posters using it as a chat room until it becomes relevant, at which point the threads are already so bad that those who are interested in talking about the show have to navigate established inside jokes and obnoxious trips, to the detriment of everyone. This is especially true if they have annoyed others during off-season and become the main target for dedicated shitposters.

>>3748
The thing with these threads on a franchise spanning every form of media including anime, is that they turn into an entrenched position where they post an OP saying "but let's talk about the anime", and then they all inevitably segue into off-topic, either completely or it turns into an "us vs off-topic shitposters" war. It's too time consuming to babysit something like im@s. Policy enforcement will without a doubt become inconsistent due to the sheer size, speed and abysmal quality of posts in these threads.

>>3749
I think that moving threads would cause more trouble than it's worth. Move a thread to the board it belongs to but it happens to be of low quality and you bump off a good thread, or posters become lazy and post where ever they want because "jannies will move it for free instead of banning me or deleting it." Using the warning system to direct them to the proper board might be a neater solution, something simple like "Imagedumps belong on /c/.".

So the hardest backlash we're gonna see is gonna come from the loli lovers.
My suggestion is to try to avoid a shit storm with these people at all cost, I suggest when you bring up the subject of moving to another board that /c/ & /e/ are suggested, I do not believe you will ever fully get these people off of /a/ mostly because they have been on /a/ for so long already.
Do not go after waifu threads.
Things to try and remember when dealing with /a/ is that the board works well with give and take so a lot of times when you take something you should give them something similar to replace it.
So if you want to put an end to the roullete style threads my suggestion is to tell the users that they can continue to have the image dump hybrid loli thread but it has to be heavily based on character discussion and not how much you want to fuck a character, this way they don't feel like you're trying to throw them off the board just refine the discussion.
/a/ is by nature a lewd board given how anime is so trying to toss out lewd discussion seems sort of fruitless to me.Trying to curb the amount of tangently anime related threads however seems like a worthy endevor.
I don't think our goal should be to try and limit what series should be discussed on /a/ since /a/ is supposed to be the anime and manga board not the anime and manga board except tu-luv and anything similar.
The most important thing when dealing with /a/ from my persective is to make it appear as though what you're doing will benifit the board in the long run, if you can convince the board that something is good they will follow it.
So how do we convince the board that some change would be good? million dollar question right there.
Most people's argument for the movement of any of the various image dumps that happens on the image board mind you is that it's an image board and posting images is what it's for, convincing them that their thread would be better suited on /c/ while that guy who never got his thread deleted yesterday got away with it is going to be hard.
If we mention board culture in a negative way they aren't gonna listen to us, we need to find other things wrong with the threads to get rid of them, like the fact that you wake up and you're a little girl is borderline rollplaying.
So for me some rough policy solutions that might be accepted by the board feel free to voice your thoughts:
Suggest that threads dedicated to character worship rather than discussion outside of waifu threads belong on /c/.
Threads dedicated to the lewd discussion of the various body parts & image dumping belong on /e/.
Most of these image dump threads are what a lot of us here and the users would call gray area threads that yea we have a board for but who wants to go over there when we can all be here, I've seen this stated before but it might as well be stated again, the sense of community is what drives most of this stuff which is why in my opinion taking action against it would be very hard and possibly detremental to the board if done wrong. At this current point we are at a half rebellion from the board I'd say.
The recent activity hasn't been such to rub the board the wrong way but any one thing could lead to a situation similar to /sp/ and /tv/. A lot of the things that the other boards suffer for /a/ doesn't, it's just sort of accepted by everyone as being a part of the everyday discussion. I can understand thinking that something may be wrong with a lot of these threads when facing complaints from the community, there has been a lot of discussion within the team recently about a lot of the subjects I'm sure you're reciveing complaints about.
A lot of the threads that are being talked about know they are borderline, many of the loli threads are there now because action was taken previosuly on the "harmless" ones.
Going after the Zeveda image had a big impact in my opinion on the users opinion of the style of moderation being brought by the none /a/ mods (no offense intended) so the best way is to reach a comprimise on all issue together before going to the users and just telling them things.
Many of the things who /a/ would call normalfags might be complaining about like loli thread are because they don't have the concept that yea there might be some legit sickos amongest the dregs of society that many of us detach the 2D world from the real world. Much of the posts on /a/ are in a way sort of like the posts on /b/, designed to drive away a certain type of poster.
List of gray area threads.
Many loli threads
breed material
homo general
idolm@s
Key general
Sakurafish
sad panda
Monster girls
Yuri threads
Yaoi threads
Kanocalle general
precure general
Many image dumps (Sending these people to a different board won't stop these completely)
character apperciation threads (so like, are we gonna ban people from posting images of C.C on the anime board)

Threads that we'll see backlash over:
all the image dump threads, the argument will be made that /a/ is an image board so they should be allowed to post whatever they want.(they might conclude this and say fuck it to the mods)
Sad panda (we will see less backlash if sad panda is left alone, janitor quote > /a/ tends to conduct itself as a board on the topic of the japanese animation industry as a whole, and not just 'anime' because the industry is a constant,)
Anything heavily based on discussion, so sad panda.
Since /a/ discusses anime as a whole and not just the anime and manga that air on TV or released weekly, the reason I come to /a/ is because of this, talking about the whole industry including hentai is why I come to /a/.

I also do not view buyfag as a problem instead more of a way for the board to express they hey they do support the industry they love, the threads are harmless and rarely get reports and they help get people started into buying anime related merch all the time, I think they are nothing but awesome.

>>3753
>>3754
I agree pretty much entirely with this. I feel that /a/'s quality as a board is generally dictated by the amount of content being discussed. When /a/ runs out of things to talk about, they resort to shitposting to fill the void, but the more stuff there is to talk about (and the more diverse) the better things are. Posters will not relocate just because we disallow a topic. Yes, im@s fans may go to /jp/ to post about im@sk, but they'll still spend their time browsing and posting on /a, only now without being able to post about im@s on /a/, they'll find something else to post about, to fill the void. When you create a content, void, /a/ almost always fills it with shitposting, because they can't generate content to fill the content void themselves, and have to wait for japan to produce something. Content voids occur naturally just from season to season, and /a/ fills them with tangentially related stuff like im@s and vocaloid, because they want to maintain that quality of discourse, even when there's no anime worth talking about. If we create a content void by forbidding or relocating these things, the pool of valid content will decline sharply, but the userbase will not, and this void will encourage endemic shitposting and become an obstacle to anime discussion.

I think our focus should be not so much on strictly defining what qualifies as /a/ material and not /a/ material, but rather on what material constitutes a thread that is up to the posting standards of /a/. The approach that was taken to Naruto threads should serve as a good example; With threads restricted to the weekly release, it ensures the threads are always on-topic and content-focused while maintaining minimal board presence.

I feel like that approach should be taken towards the problem threads outlined. Particularly Monster Girl threads, im@s, vocaloid and etc.

>>3748
>If /c/ welcomed discussion of moe anime & characters, would that help matters?
No, nobody wants to go to a different board to talk about the majority of anime.
This will just create a really, really hostile posting environment on /a/ that we don't want.
I think like one of the janitors said it's about incentive rather than the content of the thread, /a/ regards itself as the best place on the internet to discuss anime even if the quality is sub par at points and even some of the sub par stuff is entertaining.
If the idea here is to get threads moved the best one that would get rid of the biggest problem ones (in my opinion idolm@s, some of the yuri and yaoi related content,key general, sad panda, homo general, maybe some of the random style breeding material threads many of these gray area threads) is to create an anime/random board.
But, I am of the opinion that maybe /jp/ should stay if they are still on the chopping block over it, I have no stake in /jp/, but it would seem that /a/'s problems seem to stem a little from picking up /jp/ content.

>>3755
>I think our focus should be not so much on strictly defining what qualifies as /a/ material and not /a/ material, but rather on what material constitutes a thread that is up to the posting standards of /a/. The approach that was taken to Naruto threads should serve as a good example; With threads restricted to the weekly release, it ensures the threads are always on-topic and content-focused while maintaining minimal board presence.
>I feel like that approach should be taken towards the problem threads outlined. Particularly Monster Girl threads, im@s, vocaloid and etc
I agree strongly with most of your post but want to point out this particular point.
Monster girls do have on topic board related content to talk about, maybe the effort here to satisfy the posters is to break up the generals. excluding buyfag,drawfag and DJT.
I think what should happen is we should bring it on the generals and see complaints go down.
The problem with the generals is the stagnation, it becomes a circle jerk and nobody wants to take part in that.
The question is what to do about them.

>>3756
There seems to be this general regard of /jp/ as a prison board. Having your content redirected to /jp/ is seen more as a punishment than a solution and that's probably what drives a lot of /jp/ content towards /a/. The fanbases simply don't want to deal with /jp/ or, maybe more realistically, really just don't want to be labeled as 'weaponized /a/'.

It's taking someones favourite thing and saying "it's great that you like that thing, but that thing belongs in the sewer, so could you go play with in in there?" /a/ sees /jp/ synonymous with sewer, and thinks that directing content there is basically just calling it too shitty to be on /a/.

Perhaps that might be something that could be clarified in a modpost- that being redirected isn't punishment, nor is it an implication of quality or an accusation. Things that we redirect are done so because we wish to better align the content of a board with its intended topic.

>>3758
What do you think would happen if /jp/ were to be removed and a anime random board replacing it?
My thoughts are they might attack /a/.
The messed up thing is the shit posters on /jp/ are organized more so than /a/'s own IRC so they could do real damage cause they have the time.

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97 KB JPG

>>3742
>>3742
My current views regarding these topics:
First of all, about VNs. From the experience I have, in /a/, /jp/ and /vg/ threads, the three of them hold very distinct userbases. This may seem like a lax approach towards the issue, but essentially a thick barrier against translated titles has been created in /jp/. This leads to most users feeling reluctant when posting on the VN General, and the fact that it IS a general makes things worse, because they become scared of posting simple VN threads on the board. You see, this is the only board they can actually just go and post about a title they have just played, whereas /vg/ they would be forced to post on the general, and /a/ they would get their thread most likely deleted. Due to these circumstances regarding the sheer elitism from one board and a limited environment in the other, I take a stance towards occasionally letting them be on /a/. HOWEVER, I am explicitly against Muv Luv, Umineko, Majikoi, and other VN threads that would be essentially be considered recurring generals, with Fate/Stay Night being an exception due to frequent anime and manga adaptations. Yes, I realize I am taking an inverted stance towards the policy I first presented, but this is due to the experience I've acquired by frequenting the VN threads on /jp/ and /vg/.

Regarding Kancolle, I see no reason to let them alive as the general format currently being followed. Any kind of discussion regarding the manga, the Light Novels, and the doujinshi about Kancolle can be done in /jp/, and even /a/ to an extent, as long as the thread explicitly shows a desire to discuss the manga, the anime or the Light Novel. The way it currently is, it's just a little excuse to talk about the game itself. (cont.)

>>3761
(cont.)
Now, I understand the points you are trying to make when redirecting /a/ to be a more anime and manga oriented board, and I mostly agree with your ideas, but specifically getting rid of so many communities might plunge the whole board into chaos, so we'll have to be extremely careful when undertaking such policies. Since we're cracking down on generals, we might as well take down the Monster Girl threads, as you've mentioned, so justice is fair with everyone. The main problem I see on /a/ nowadays is this tendency to slowly create generals for more popular themes. They mostly could be redirected to other boards, but I propose the following: let's give a certain freedom for /a/ to talk about topics such as action figures, Visual Novels, and lewd anime art, but OCCASIONALLY. If we ever notice generals are being formed, we take 'em down as soon as possible. What do I wish to accomplish by taking this stance? You see, /a/ will be extremely bothered by this sudden change of policy, and they will create a huge amount of backlash, so in an effort to reduce such an unnecessary war between moderation and the userbase, we propose a deal: as long as no generals are formed and threads aren't constantly made about topics with indirect connections to anime and manga, we let them be. If they start becoming too frequent, we crack them down. This way, I aim to preserve the original userbases who liked discussing such topics before they were kicked out, but at the same time letting space for /jp/, /c/ and /e/ to flourish. I shall write a post regarding board culture later on.

Synthesizing my posts to the general idea I want to bring: Let's not simply force them to completely change the board they have been frequenting for several years. Let's take a more gradual, slow approach regarding these changes. This extreme change in the functionality of the board might cause extreme backlash, and we do not want the moderation and user relationship on /a/ get worse.

The modpost in the Wixoss thread earlier seemed to be a step int he right direction. Even within the same day, you can note a positive change in the atmosphere of the threads.

It seem the very possibility of being relocated to /jp/ has scared the wixoss fans enough to strictly self-moderate their own threads. Perhaps if we address some of the other problem threads in similar manners, we can drastically increase the thread quality (and thus solve our problems) without needing to chase them out with bans and pitchforks.

If problematically low-content/imagedump threads or those which were ambiguously off topic, like some of the adopted VN threads were informed directly that they needed to refocus their content towards discussion and /a/ related material, they may solve the problem themselves. If they self-moderate their content like the wixoss threads have been doing today, they'll reduce their post-rate, reducing image dumps and narrowing conversation focus, thus reducing the need for new threads.

It could allow us to clean out problem threads from within, with assistance from the userbase itself, instead of simply chasing things off to different boards. We've already seen the threat of relocation serve as adequate incentive for users to comply, so perhaps we could push this further. As long as it doesn't blow up in our faces.

I think some of you guys are missing one of the things I was trying to get across: speed kills boards. The faster a board is, the lower the quality of posting. People post on 4chan in order to get replies, and on a fast board you need to post fast to get anyone to respond to you. That means the level of discourse drops precipitously as people try to post faster & faster.

The more topics that get crammed onto a board, the faster it gets. And "occasionally" allowing some /jp/ content on /a/ is opening the door to all /jp/ content being allowed on /a/, as "occasionally" is subjective and entirely up to the discretion of the mod or janitor looking at it. Once the precedent is set, then because of the "/jp/ is a sewer" notion, all of /jp/'s posters and content will just migrate to /a/, like is already well underway. People post pure VN threads that get hundreds of replies on /a/, whereas on /jp/ there are only a handful of truly active threads.

Let's take things to an extreme. If for instance, we were to make /a/ NWS and nuke all the other Japanese media boards what would that look like? Everyone would be able to post whatever Japanese media they liked without having to worry about being off-topic. But would you be able to have a quality discussion about a non-mainstream or less popular series, or would such a thread plummet off the board with no replies? How many porn threads do you think there would be? How many generals would arise? The natural tendency of posters is to want that board, but if they ever were to actually *get* that board, they'd hate it because it would be little more than Japan flavored /b/.

Everyone, including staff, needs to get past the notion that /jp/ is somehow inherently bad and that board culture is some insurmountable barrier. If posters on /a/ have to discuss VNs on /jp/, they will bring their attitude and culture with them. Changing an 'a' to a 'jp' in the address bar doesn't turn them into different people. But I agree that redirecting users needs to be done in a non-confrontational and respectful manner, lest users think they are being insulted or punished somehow. Hence why I think the best way of redirecting people to the correct board is something like this:

>Such and such topic should be discussed on such and such board, except when directly relating this topic to an anime or manga series. Please remake this thread there.
>Thank you.

Immediately followed by a lock. Ideally one would permasage the thread before modposting, to prevent it from being bumped and drawing in outside posters who happen to see a mod posting.

>>3762
Words like "certain freedom" and "occasionally" imply subjectivity. Everyone on the team is going to be drawing the line in a different place, and in the interest of keeping the peace and giving users a relaxed environment, we will inevitably allow more and more tertiary discussion, and just end up allowing even more /jp/, /c/ and /e/ material on /a/ than we do right now.

My goal here isn't to attack /a/'s userbase or needlessly cause strife with /a/'s posters. My goal here is to preserve /a/'s level of discourse, which has deteriorated significantly in the past year or so. /a/ now generates more reports than /v/ and /vg/ combined. While the majority of those reports are spurious and merely get cleared, there's still quite a lot of the low quality shitposting that /a/ derides other boards for. Everyone clamouring into /a/ because "all their friends are here" or "/jp/ is a shithole" just means that /a/ gets faster and faster, and shitposting becomes more common as the board transitions from discussion forum to chatroom-with-images. Nobody should see other boards as prisons where they are exiled. They should just open each board's catalog in a different tab (like every single browser today can do), and take advantage of the extra room for interesting and higher quality discussions that result from having multiple boards.

Maybe a software solution is the best way to go. We might never be able to get past the preconceptions that users have about other boards (which to my mind are completely ridiculous). If we had some way of allowing users to build their own boards out of topics that they liked, and labelled new threads using drop-downs or tags for different topics, then we might be able to dispense with the notion of fixed boards entirely. That's likely a pipe dream though, given 4chan's limited resources.

Also, here are some examples of threads that have been redirected, just so you can get an idea of the sort of stuff I'm trying to target.

https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/106820973/#106846611
https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/106848929/#106877410
https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/106838891/#106879466
https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/106856489/#106881966
https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/106890448/#106892927
https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/106888657/#106893157

Also this is relevant:
https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/106890448/#106892927_2
https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/106890448/#106892927_4
While users might not agree with or like change, they do seem to understand why.

>>3753
>Suggest that threads dedicated to character worship rather than discussion outside of waifu threads belong on /c/.
I completely agree with this. We don't need 10 threads about the same show, each dedicated to a different character. (e.g Kill la Kill last season)

About VNs, I don't see any problem as long as the VN has either a manga or an anime adaptation and the discussion is not exclusively about the VN.

Another thing I'd like to say is that the Precure thread isn't really a grey area thread. Precure has new episodes coming out every week and the threads are relatively peaceful.

Monster girl threads are steadily becoming worse and worse, with little to no discussion and full of either shitposting or /tg/ material.

And I agree with >>3763
These changes should be made slowly, because we all know how /a/ overreacts to everything and if we make the changes too suddenly it may end up backfiring.

>>3766
>I think some of you guys are missing one of the things I was trying to get across: speed kills boards. The faster a board is, the lower the quality of posting.

I don't think that's necessarily true. 2011/2012 were also fast and had the same rules, but it was a grand old time. I think the board is getting worse, maybe because of action or inaction in moderation or self-moderation of the board (shifting demographic even? I have no idea), but I don't think speed has anything to do with it.

>People post on 4chan in order to get replies, and on a fast board you need to post fast to get anyone to respond to you. That means the level of discourse drops precipitously as people try to post faster & faster.

I don't think anyone has ever felt obligated to reply to a thread because it's a fast board. It's usually because they like the topic being discussed. Whether it should be discussed on that board is another question.

I think /jp/ stuff should go to /jp/, but the bigger problem is /c/ fluff threads being dispatched.
If it's games (/v/, /vp/, etc) fine, if it's /jp/ related (VNs and Vocaloid) fine, but if it's even slightly anime related I don't see a reason to touch it, because in my mind it'll only cause issues.

http://archive.foolz.us/a/search/type/op/start/2011-10-01/end/2012-02-01/page/1/
You'll notice a large amount of these posts are from the last time we had a shift in content control of /a/ (loli ban), don't know why just is (maybe the 2011 archives are not so well maintained), but 2011 and 2012 were, at least in my opinion, great years for /a/. If you look through the OP posts page by page, you'll see the difference between then and now is not so great, yet the board has survived all this time without severe restrictions on the quality of any specific thread.

If /jp/ is "a sewer" and if removing /jp/ threads from /a/ will help /jp/, I'm fine with that. We don't need /jp/ stuff on /a/, I'm pretty much in full agreement.
(cont.)

>>3770
The thing is, once you get into gray territory like VNs with an anime adaptation or anime based off of a video game (VN or otherwise), the line becomes blurred and you can't really expect users to understand "Okay guys, IM@S has been arbitrarily declared to not be an anime, so git out", let alone the increasing amount of currently airing anime based on games, be they VNs, card games or so on.

In your Umineko thread example, since he's talking about the game in the OP it's fine, but what happens if they legitimately bring up the anime, and it is overshadowed by game content in their own thread? Do we need to individually police each post and check for game discussion?

I guess the real question is: Should we accept that franchises with products from multiple mediums are okay on many boards, or quarantined to one?

Should we ban Oreimo or Oregaru threads because they have a VN? Or because they were based on an LN? Or just ban VN posters? It actually increases the (moderation) confusion which is already problematic.

Or will we leave those alone "occasionally"? You'll find we're stuck in the same predicament.

In the second example, this kind of stuff is going to be the general consensus, I'm sure of it:
>And why should it go on /e/ when it's about characters from related /a/ series, and not just the original content of whatever artists /e/ fancies?
>This doesn't make sense at all.

As for image dumps and waifu threads, I don't mind them being booted to /c/ and I doubt many people would mind, but as I said before, this will just evolve into people posting anime general threads (ex "Monogatari thread" and dumping Shinobu in it, with contributors from other camps posting all the while, calling each other's waifus shit just like the day before)

Also while we're on the subject of moving these "cute" threads around:
>>>/a/106907784

>Traps aren't allowed in /c/
>This. Last time I checked /y/ doesn't like trap either.
>The only place to discuss trap legitimately now is /cm/
>Technically the only place is /d/, but then it'd really be just a porn fest and nothing more.
>You can post traps on /y/ but it's pretty much the same deal as /d/. Both of those boards are just meant for pictures and not discussion.

>>3766
>If posters on /a/ have to discuss VNs on /jp/, they will bring their attitude and culture with them.
And will be met with hostility and group of people who will shit all over you for not being as awesome as them, /jp/'s angry elitism is what drives people away.
They take it too far and when you have a group who sole purpose is to shit up the board it scares users off too.
>which has deteriorated significantly in the past year or so
There are reasons for this that have to do with some of the recent anime too, mainstream anime attracts the worst kind of posters. SAO, SnK, KlK and next up is gonna be Psycho Pass , these series honestly bring in fans /a/ doesn't like.
>We might never be able to get past the preconceptions that users have about other boards (which to my mind are completely ridiculous)
It isn't ridiculous to identify with a community, on boards outside of /a/ you now have to deal with people who don't post at the same level as /a/, they use emoticons, post like their a brain dead vegetable or a sperglord racist autist from /b/, I can understand /a/ not wanting to associate with people who don't even give a shit about the level of discussion being brought.

>>3767
I can see the hostility from the users already this is not going well in cause you're wondering.
My opinion is this is not how to solve these problems, giving the users no chance to have discussion with you isn't fair, attempting to get them to agree to things is the way to get what you want not just telling them to fuck off cause you think the thread doesn't belong, you're saying you don't want to insult the users but you're already doing it. And they are already doing the mod who doesn't handle the board is trying to make us do shit stuff.
This style of trying to get /a/ to do things isn't working.
>https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/106890448/#106892927_4
This one is a fucking shit head troll from my perspective.

>>3772
I honestly don't understand why the image dump boards have to be discussion boards all the sudden.

>>3766
>>Such and such topic should be discussed on such and such board, except when directly relating this topic to an anime or manga series. Please remake this thread there.
>>Thank you.

I don't have anything to do with /a/, and maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but I agree with this method. I honestly think that it would be useful on other boards too, if it was made visible to the users, so that instead of people going "Why was my thread deleted? Oh, well I will just make another" they will take their discussion to the appropriate board.

>>3776
You do make a fair point but....
I would like time to think to see if I could come up with a better method.
I have a problem with the steins;gate delete by the way simply because steins;gate threads are unpredictable, you never know here the discussion is gonna go no matter how it is started.

>>3776
The problem here becomes long term enforcement.
When you're enforcing the rules over a long period of time you'll find that many times no matter what you do they keep on rolling.
What you get when the users lose respect for the mods is what we have with /jp/ and /tv/,/sp/ these boards /sp/ mainly is an open rebellion style of posting, sure it may be a small group but they have just as much if not more time at odd hours than we do.
What we need is for the janitors to step up for any of this to work I guess. Which means we all gotta agree on how it's gonna go down.
For example though stream threads are officially against the rules and I do ban for it often and regularly they are still being made.
So this can down all the way just so we can see what happens but my guess is one day we're gonna wake up and find out that we've lost control of /a/ completely as they rampage and post about whatever the fuck they want.
I mean it might be kinda neat to see maybe the board is lazy now maybe I'm wrong, lets poke the bear.

My suggestion is a thread like what we've done in the past at a time when even moot could post in it if he wanted. you should try to have the posts with the policy stuff you want before hand and at that point it's up to the users to follow it or not but at least allow them some sayn

>>3779
Also this way the thread could be stickied for max impact than taken down later.

>>3778
I don't disagree with you, because I run into the same problems on /co/ with people who just do what they want, but at a certain point we do have to step up and do what we're here to do.

I'm not into the whole "us vs. them" mentality that many users seem to have in regards to their relationship with moderation, but we also shouldn't be letting the inmates run the asylum.

Nobody wants to make the user experience worse, and 4chan isn't a place like Something Awful, where our moderators/janitors are forums superstars that have a hard-on for banning people to get another 10bux. I can't speak authoritatively on the "culture" of /a/, because to be quite frank, I don't go there, but at the very least there should try to nip issues in the bud, before they become the kinds of problems that crop up on other boards (constant off-topic discussion, cross board threads/generals, user rebellion).

>>3776
I agree in theory, but to the point made here:
>>3778
>What you get when the users lose respect for the mods is what we have with /jp/ and /tv/,/sp/ these boards /sp/ mainly is an open rebellion style of posting

In theory, yes, topics should be made for a specific anime or manga, it sounds alluring until you realize that most threads on /a/ are just to fill the time between anime releases, and that the various off-topic threads full of lolibutt or traps or just random commentary about characters ('why is <x> such a slut?', 'who <x> here?') are made because they want /a/ discourse when there's no /a/ related media to discuss.
The users however, will not understand making their board significantly slower, or killing discussions that have been fine for years for quality reasons. My thoughts are that their reaction won't be "wow, this place has higher quality discussion, thanks mods/janitors" it will be more of the /tv/ and /sp/ variety.
It's true we shouldn't "let the inmates run the asylum" if some sort of posting 'rebellion' were to take place, but by luck I hope it won't have to reach that point.

I think what would help is a strict list of what would be allowed/disallowed (formulated here, or based on feedback there as somebody else suggested) and all other threads that fall out of the 'disallowed' pile should just be allowed by default.
I'm not saying /jp/ is bad, or /c/, or /e/ or any of those boards, I am saying that /a/ users want to remain on /a/ and fill the time between shows with /a/ posters, for better or worse. I just don't think it's helpful to try to shape that opinion into something different, rather I think it's better to cater to their instincts.

>>3771
See:
>>3748

Regardless of the franchise, discussions directly related to and primarily about anime series go on /a/. Those primarily about the VN should go on /jp/.

If a thread which is primarily about the anime adaptation brings up material from the VN, that's fine. The Umineko thread was entirely about the VN. That's why it got locked.

>>3766
I think the biggest contributor to the board speed is that crap threads like ">you will never lovingly run your fingers through Mami's tomboy hair" and ">no X thread >mfw". They clog up the board with low quality posts and take up space that could have been used for real discussion.

>>3753
The Precure threads are fine, aside from a recent spell of anti-yuri trolling that showed up recently. They watch the old shows and discuss the episodes, live watch every weekend, translate doujin pages and such. Circlejerking and waifu crap is a very minimal part of the threads when I visit them.

>>3783
But what is the breaking point for primarily about the anime adaption? The OP posts "this is an anime/manga thread", like they do for the KanColle general currently, and then a couple of posts down they are drowned out by game discussion. Is it masquerading as an anime thread or did it actually get derailed? Do we nuke the thread or attempt to babysit it and neglect the rest of the board until we are done?

I think that before we go ahead and enact new policies we need to talk about how we will handle enforcement in the problematic areas so that all mods and janitors are of one mind to make sure that moderation is consistent. Users who feel that they are being treated unfairly are definitely going to become a problem when moderation activity increases.

What >>3779 said ought to be considered. How about posting >>3742, or a revision based on this discussion if necessary, on /a/ and see if our interests are aligned with the users. If they are aware that it is going to happen and have had a chance to say their piece the backlash will probably be minimal. /a/ hates off topic and low quality posting more than they hate popular anime.

>>3783
I don't think such a separation is necessarily practical, because not every thread about the franchise will be specifically about one or the other. For instance, in the case of idolm@ster, I feel like most discussions are character-based, and such discussions will necessarily draw from varied sources.

Basically, I think the more lenient policy outlined here:
>>3087
is probably more correct.

I think the other problem with this sort of policy is that it further encourages general threads. Because of the way it determines board relevance (medium, as opposed to content), it gives the appearance of severely restricting the ways in which people can begin a conversation about the franchise, and thus the only way for a poster to work around this is to make/find a general thread and then post about the aspect of the franchise they're interested in there. And god forbid we get two parallel general threads going - that would definitely be unnecessarily confusing for users.

>>3785
>Users who feel that they are being treated unfairly are definitely going to become a problem when moderation activity increases
And as they are forcibly migrated to /c/ and /e/ I expect the quality of their threads there will be pretty awful to begin with, and I don't want to see those threads become anti-moderation plotting headquarters. The first thing the /a/ Ryuko posters did after merging with the /c/ threads (which until that point were 99% fanart and largely textless) was complain and discuss if and how they could get their threads back on /a/. And just today, somebody made this post: >>>/c/2221262

So months later, they still want to go back to /a/. Any threads that migrate from /a/ will have to make some sacrifices - like the Ryuko threads putting their writing in pastebins instead of the threads, and leaving their exhentai links behind. Moreover than /e/ and /c/ not being thought of as "discussion boards," they just aren't places meant for the kind of all-inclusive character discussion /a/ is used to.

That said, the transition for the Ryuko threads was honestly not a big change, excluding perhaps /c/'s lower bump and image limits. The posters certainly did "bring their attitude and culture with them" as per >>3766, but even despite character discussion (which is *not* discouraged on /c/) and being allowed to post screencaps and borderline avatars ("low-quality" contribution by /c/'s standards), they're still unhappy with the situation for their own reasons.

So, all that to say, even on /c/ (a far cry from the "we can't go there, that board is a sewer" stigma of /jp/), even when allowed *nearly* all the freedoms they had on /a/, it goes to show that posters in migrated threads may still just flat-out refuse to accept their new home. So there will be resistance even with the kinds of threads you'd think "oh, well that will work perfectly on /c/, they'll get over it," and you can bet that it'll be even worse with the gray areas and /jp/ migrations.

PR is definitely something we should be concerned about this time around. The project we're talking about here is a large one and almost every thread and fanbase and pseudo-subculture targeted is going to feel like they're being unjustly victimized by the mods, and when we've pissed off enough of them, they're going to lash out.

/a/ generally maintains it's high quality because a good majority of the posters care enough about the boards overall quality to police itself in an appropriate manner.

I agree that 'island' threads disrupt this, but I don't think this is an issue with speed. Even at peak season, the most shitpost-heavy KlK threads were still rife with good discussion and lengthy discourse. I think these threads reduce the quality of the board because they become quarantine zones for posters who don't otherwise mix in with /a/'s culture at large. They stay separated, contained to their home threads where they don't have to concenr themselves with the overall quality of the board and become uninvolved with /a/ as a whole. This separation removes that incentive to keep posting quality high and creates a sort of equilibrium of mediocrity that's self-sustaining.

The end result is the same; these threads are like infected boils and we need to lance them before the kind of shitposting and general irreverence they provoke becomes endemic. However, I think we should be transparent about this. In my mind, the removal of general threads from /a/ several years ago (was it 09? I can't remember now. It was after madoka aired) is a parallel to what is happening now, and a similar approach through which we involve the userbase of /a/ in the process, is the best solution.

By which I mean there should be a locked and stickied mod post outlining some of these new guidelines that we will be enforcing and a list of threads that will be targeted, and for which reasons they will be targeted.

I have spent the day trying to come up with a post or posts to give to the users but so far nothing.

>>3791
I'll throw together a template tomorrow and the higher ups can fiddle with it to fit everything they want to address.

I am eager to see these new policies implemented.

>>3790
>>3789
These are both good points and pretty true.

Regarding migrating threads and /jp/: For all the talk about 'bringing their culture with them', isn't that basically a promise that they'd be subjected to constant shitposting and attempts to run off 'crossies'? /jp/ is certainly one of the most xenophobic boards on 4chan. Why wouldn't the users view it as punishment? It's certainly punishing.for them. Given the option between holding it in a welcoming environment and holding it in a place where they'll be constantly under fire, it's no wonder which they'd prefer. I obviously don't have a solution to this, but I can't see any way being forced into /jp/ is not a bad thing from a user's perspective. As long as the current face of /jp/ as a hostile board remains (something a vocal portion of the users of /jp/ seem to encourage, I might add), you'll not get a favorable response out of this.

Can someone please make a modpost on one of the WIXOSS threads, telling them officially whether they belong on /jp/ or /tg/?
>>>/tg/32003330
>>>/jp/12101703

Generals on both of the boards is definitely a bad idea. It creates needless confusion for anyone wanting to talk about the games or contribute translations of cards or whatever else they do.

I'd also just like to voice my opinion that personally, I think they belong on /jp/. I don't know much about /tg/ culture, but I get the sense that wixoss is a bit out of place, and the people who frequent the wixoss threads won't wander out to the board at large; its existence there will be tolerated by the board and by the wixoss peeps, but there won't be any cultural exchange, and the island-like quality that is typical of generals will be further solidified. I think it's obvious to most people that it would be right at home on /jp/, shitposters aside. It's difficult to justify without looking like we're just arbitrarily pulling the board culture card; I don't think just telling them "hey, your game has cute girls and /jp/ likes cute girls, so please come back kudasai" is really convincing, but it's just extremely difficult to describe board culture succinctly.

The other issue is that if we don't move it back, it solidifies the stigma that /jp/ is a sewer where the shitposters will spam any new content out of their secret club. I don't think that this is an insurmountable problem from the moderation side, but it's very important that we consider the PR aspect of any future moves, especially since other threads may not be as willing as the WIXOSS threads to just listen to the mods. We need to be able to give people a heads up that their threads will be shitted in, but that we will be policing them until things die down. We also need to make sure that everyone, both users and any relevant 4chan team members, understands that the moved threads are in fact on-topic in /jp/, and belong better there than any other board.

>>3795
I admittedly don't know much about WIXOSS, but it's a card game right? Seems like it should be fine on /tg/, honestly. Assuming they actually are playing the card game in those threads, I mean. If they're just talking about the girls and nothing else, then probably not, but the last one I saw had a bunch of lackey (cardgame client) matches going on.

I would personally favor letting them make threads are both boards. It feels pretty arbitrary to take something that's perfectly valid under both board's rules and force it into one or the other. I feel that users who want to contribute will figure it out for themselves. I don't they don't need that kind of babysitting.

It's also likely one or the other will win out eventually. In which case people will probably migrate back to whichever has the most activity. You need people to play, after all.

>>3797
I suspect that with no babysitting at all, they would move back to /a/.
>>>/tg/32017004

>>3798
That's not quite what I meant, but yes, fair point.

Also, I'm not suggesting we leave them hanging and confused. Tell them that either /jp/ or /tg/ would be acceptable, and I imagine the issue will sort itself out. Thoughts?

Having read through the threads linked up there I see a good number of straight MTG references ("Cryptic Command, WIXOSS edition"). Seems pretty /tg/ compatible to me.

>>3800
>>3798
I get the impression that poster talk about coming back to /a/ in a "Is our punishment over? We swear we've learned our lesson!" sense. They're not prepared to fight to keep their stuff on one board or another, and if they had any such inclination, it's a bit late now.

Maybe just a little mod transparency to let them know that this isn't just 1 powertripping mod with vendetta, and is actually an overall policy change regarding moderation of /a/ content.

I feel like right now we've just been kind of pulling the rug out from under a lot of /a/ users, and they're more confused than they are upset.

>>3801
I think it's more "did the mods forget yet?"

But the general course of action still seems sound. A small "it's not just you, we're tightening up policy" sort of thing.

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>This thread
>My reaction
I might be an outsider looking in (because I'm mostly on /tg/), but with WIXOSS being brought up this thread has become relevant to me again! I don't really go on /a/. I like thinking my own thoughts about shows. Another reason I don't go on /a/ because whenever I go on /a/ I see topics like
>Why does /a/ hate older women?
>You are locked at the gym with this girl. What do you do?
>Choose wisely
>Onee-sans
>You wouldn't a master detective?
>Post worst girls
>Can i make her a girl?
>Would you marry a tomboy, /a/?
>When is it okay to cry, /a/?

I come to /a/. And I see these threads. And then I say to myself: are you serious? Is this really anime or manga? Why is this allowed? Do these threads not get reported? So I throw up my hands, turn 360 degrees, and walk away. I'm not going to root through all this garbage to find a thread about Generic School Show #87, episode 35. What do I know about /a/? Maybe these threads are allowed and I'm just too plebian know better!

But honestly, most of these threads are utter garbage.

I thought most of what was said in >>3742 is perfectly clear and acceptable. Is it really so difficult to be consistent on enforcing what is and is not on-topic for /a/?
>All images and resulting discussion should pertain to anime or manga.
>Japanese visual novels should be posted in /jp/, and Western on /vg/.

I once complained about something happening in /tg/. A moderator told me: "wow you sure have a lot of that problem! Where are the traditional games?" I've said that many times to myself when deciding what to do with errant threads or posts. Maybe those in charge of cleaning /a/ can ask themselves that? "Where is the anime/manga?"

cont.

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>>3804
Now, that's all my opinion on /a/ which you can feel free to disregard because, as I've said, I don't go on /a/ and what do I know about what threads are and are not allowed. With regards to WIXOSS, it is perfectly acceptable on /tg/ because it is a card game. I have already started and will continue to delete meta discussion about whether or not this is /a/ or /jp/ related, because that meta discussion is not a traditional game or even a game at all! It's complete bullshit, and if you want to talk about complete bullshit you can go to the /b/ullshit board. If the users would like to sneak in discussion about the show or whatever, that's fine too, but it should pertain about how the show is relevant to the card game. Things like the setting or how to expand it, or how the characters act are all moderately OK as long as it doesn't go out of hand.

I also don't see a reason to remove all WIXOSS-the-anime discussion from /a/. I can't speak about /jp/, but to my inexperienced eye, it seems that WIXOSS might qualify as a "niche Japanese interest" as per the /jp/ rules. I can't make that call, though. Same goes for YuGiOh. It's not a popular topic, but it is always welcome on /tg/. Heck, it would probably be OK to talk about the show here too, because it's so closely tied to the game and might be a neato setting. That doesn't mean you cannot talk about it on /a/. As a 4chan janitor who does it for free, I have always felt it to be my responsibility to get rid of bullshit meta discussion from threads that are acceptable for the board. Yes, even in threads I don't personally like, or threads where a lot of users complain! If people are talking about something on-topic, and a lot of users are preventing that discussion from taking place, it is my responsibility to get rid of the users preventing the discussion.

cont.

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>>3805
Caving in to the demands of complainers to get rid of a thread about something they don't like (but is otherwise acceptable) is terrible precedent. It is also as bad as letting terrible threads live despite them being not acceptable! 4chan is NOT a democracy! It is not ruled by the mob! Users come here to have fun, but their fun should NOT consist entirely of making irrelevant garbage posts or complaining about others having fun!

(Also, why Sumomo, you ask? Well, because her character theme song is "Storm in a Teacup")

>>3804
Almost all of those things can be /a/ related based on the context of the thread itself. They aren't inherently on or off-topic and are treated on a case-by-case basis. /a/ isn't limited to discussion of currently airing anime, nor should it be.

>>3804
Well like i said somewhere in the thread, in theory strictly enforcing anime/manga is a concept that works well on other boards like /k/ or /tg/ but it works less well for stuff like /a/ because there's so much down time between anime, and because it's an active board.

Most of what you said is right, but the threads you complained about have little to do with the problem you addressed (random low-quality topics vs completely off-topic /jp/ or /tg/ things), I think the issues are separate because it's fairly easy to say: Okay, VN/Card/etc threads have to go, but when you get into low-quality topics and /c/ or /e/ topics (character related or in any way sexual or low quality because it is somehow sexual) janitor/moderator opinion factors into the determination greatly, and /a/ will just get more angry as time goes on because they don't share the same vision as some people here as to what /a/ should be.

I know it sounds like something simple, but it is amazingly difficult, at least to me, to declare a topic garbage and in need of trashing because it's low quality. Even if we got rid of "/c/" and "/e/" topics along with some other low-quality topic types, we'd be stuck with a lot of hate and a lot of low-quality topics just barely riding the line, to where janitors will simply not take action because they can't make the determination.

"Is this topic so horrible that it should be banned?"

Honestly I think it would just cause more problems. I agree on the primarily VN and card game topics, by the way, I just think it's open for abuse (they will try to avoid the rule by making anime threads) so I think it'll solve less than envisioned.

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515 KB GIF

>>3808
Also I should mention I think a lot of these issues would be solved by some strict guidelines and as I said earlier, just letting everything that doesn't fall under those rules slip by. Whether it's decided we ban /jp/, /tg/, /c/ and /e/ threads or not, there's a lot of janitor preference dictating janitor action, rather than just adhering to a set of rules. I'm not sure if this is fine and something I just have to get used to, maybe everyone is used to just going with their gut but there is going to be edge cases and in those cases I feel it'd be better if we left the topic alone rather than leave it up to janitor preference. I'll elaborate if anyone asks, but I feel that's one main thing stopping the report queue on /a/ from being a little cleaner.

So whether the changes go through or not, some sort of stricter (not necessarily meaning more deletions or bans, could in fact mean less depending on the route we take, just stricter meaning more concise) guidelines would be nice. If somebody tells me I should just know a shitpost when I see it I can try my best, but either mistakes will be made or inaction will be the result (some higher up determines something a shitpost and I won't remove it, or I remove something and a higher up determines it wasn't a shitpost, both seem like negative results to me). Would also be nice to say "If something doesn't fit within these guidelines, it's okay to clear", meaning a majority of posts which don't fall under those guidelines can be cleared without worry.

Also not sure if this is relevant to the current subject of debate, but I figured I'd throw it out there.

>>3804
>>3807
It is also how /a/ drives away outsiders and those who don't want to lurk. They take one look and think that it's a shithole and move on to MAL or animesuki, whatever. The threads are often fine once you open and read them and have learned to look past /a/'s style of writing.
Or rather, it was that way once upon a time, nowadays I am not so sure.

We think it would be good to refine discussion and posting style just a little bit here guys.
So we are going to outline the policy the way it is going to be enforced hence forth:
-Threads dedicated to pure image dumping IE there is little to no discussion happening will be pruned.
-threads dedicated to posting of a specific body part will be pruned and we ask the users to please use our fine /e/ board for such posts.
Threads slightly but not completely related to anime will be pruned.
(maybe put a table here to indicate what type of threads we will allow and disallow, for clarification)

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>>3811
I don't think this is what one would call a "quality thread."

Maybe you can accuse me of cherry picking, but if this is how /a/ "maintains quality" I don't really want to be on that board.

Furthermore, in my opinion, driving away outsiders is also stupid. Maybe /a/ can afford to do it because it's a large board and can use the lower user count, but it is not worth the negativity and toxic user pool it creates.

We think it would be good to refine discussion and posting style just a little bit here.
So we are going to outline the policy the way it is going to be enforced hence forth:
-Threads dedicated to pure image dumping IE there is little to no discussion happening will be pruned.
-threads dedicated to posting of a specific body part will be pruned and we ask the users to please use our fine /e/ board for such posts.
-Threads slightly but not completely related to anime will be pruned.
What will not be pruned:
-Anything related to anime and manga that has heavy discussion and is following the rules.
For instance a debate over who has the better ass would be ok for a series like klk because it's within the topic of discussion for the series since it is a series full of fanservice (is this not why you are here)
-Threads that consist of heavy character discussion and lots of image dumping.
addressing NSFW:
-If the the thread is ecchi/hentai in nature but is keeping within the rules IE not posting NSFW images for hentai related content/when posting lewd scenes from an ecchi manga to use the spoiler function and not just posting them to post them to but add to the discussion of the thread, it is ok.
Example posting a gif of the major destroying her body to demonstrate things about the limits of her body counts as posting NSFW content to lend to the discussion.
Posting images of a bath scence to that has naked girls in it to talk about how cliche it is or what have you is ok.

>>3813
I don't see a problem with that thread. It's on-topic, discussing a character from an anime that is not well-liked, and offering a hypothetical situation in which the reader is given the opportunity to act upon their animosity towards her.

Looks fine to me.

Concerning /jp/ related content.
Threads about VNs should be posted on /jp/, that's why the board exists.
(This would be the time where we have a discussion about breaking /jp/'s hostility over translated VNs)
If the threads are about an anime that is an adaptation of a VN that is heavily about the anime with slight VN discussion it is ok.

I mentioned I'd pound out a quick template for an example of a stickied modpost, so here it is.

Hello, /a/.

You may have noticed recently there have been some changes in moderator activity, and we felt it would be best to offer full disclosure and bring the rest of you up to speed with the broad policy changes to /a/'s moderation that are informing these actions, as well as more to come in the following weeks.

Primarily, we want to address areas where we may have been lenient in the past, particularly concerning topics that are tangentially related to anime and manga.
Games, Visual Novels, Light novels etc. are not considered anime related material. In the case where a franschise may have adaptations that include anime/manga as well as these other media, we would like to see discussion separated to the appropriate boards. Discussion about an anime adapated from a VN or LN should focus its content directly on the anime adaptation and tak discussiojn of any non-anime/manga source material or adaptations to their appropriate board. We expect users to facilitate this separation themselves, but will be enforcing as necessary on a thread-by-thread basis.

In addition, we would like to directly address threads on the subject of:
X
Y
and Z
In the past we have overlooked these topics despite not being directly anime or manga related. However, as part of these new policies, we would like to see these topics relocated to the appropriate board, as their content is not suitably on-topic within /a/.

We would also like to clarify topics that we still consider acceptable under these new policies, to ensure there is no confusion among users.
Threads on the subject of:
A
B
and C
are not subjects we consider problematic as long as they continue to abide by the rules of /a/, because (reasons)

cont'd.

>>3817
What you can do to help:
Continue to report threads and posts which are not on-topic or abiding by /a/'s Rule #1
Avoid posting to accuse a thread or post of being off-topic, and avoid publicly announcing reports. Report silently.
Continue to make quality contributions to the board on the topics of anime and manga
And always remember to take it easy

-The Mods

I'd also just like to add that I think things like DJT, Buyfag threads and exhentai threads should remain exceptions. The latter, especially because doujinshi manga and fanwork manga is entirely on topic with the board and isn't explicitely nsfw.

>>3817
>>3818
Shouldn't it be mentioned that /a/ has become too fast due to the amount of tangentially related topics and the point of the moderation is to slow down the board, so that on topic threads that garner milder interest can survive long enough to gain momentum? They need to know that there is a real and honest concern for the board is the driving force behind the changes so they won't get the idea that the moderators are fed up with X and are just trying to force the board to suit their tastes.

The tone of this post is too strong in my opinion, just springing "moderation will get tougher, deal with it" won't get a lot of support.

>>3821
I don't necessarily think telling an active board that they're shit because they're too fast, sow e're cutting down on content is the best way to win them over, but you're correct they probably deserve a more substantial explanation regarding why these changes are happening now, and why it's necessary.

I'd leave the finer details of such an explanation to the higher-ups, though, since they seem to have a better idea of the big picture.

>>3817
>>3814
>>3816
>>3742
We can try to work these posts together.

I'd like to ask what the rest of the team thinks about Monstergirl threads on /a/.
I'm aware that there is a manga, as well as a number of doujinshi manga works that are generally the topic of discussion, but the releases are infrequent and the threads seem to be perpetually recycled imagedumps and low-content discussions that stretch the long gulfs between actual releases.

Personally, I'd like to see these threads created less frequently, maybe encouraging users to limit Monstergirl threads to the time surrounding new releases? They're fine when they are actually talking about new chapters, but for the other 3 weeks out of the month, it's just self-perpetuating circlejerks and shitposting wrapped up in the guise of /a/ culture, because they have nothing else to really talk about.

>>3813
To say it while trying to be the least offensive possible: It is likely /a/ wasn't meant for you, then.

As crazy as it seems the shallow threads and toxic environment is what keeps people posting daily between anime (though some people here seem to think that's a bad thing), and what you're talking about is far too ambitious. If we apply your attitude to the board, I do believe we'll have real problems.

>>3817
>>3818
My only complaint is that I thought it would be more of a discussion post, rather than a "here's how shit goes down" post.

>>3826
MG generals have been around since MGQ, but increased to an almost daily thing with the MG manga. I have never minded them, though they have definitely morphed into a subculture within a subculture. I don't understand any of that crazy shit anymore.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Personally as far as content goes I really only think we need to get rid of stuff that is completely off topic, like VNs, card games etc. I'd hoped the conversation would not have moved as quickly into the direction of "ban it all, post this sticky, change /a/ immediately".

>>3804
I find it kind of odd to use /tg/ as an example there would /tg/ has so many not-really-traditional-games posts. See: Most elf threads (it's not rape if it's an elf!), TESG (and the numerous other vidya RPGs that have had threads over the years), any 'sexy' fantasy race thread, the vast majority of CYOA/hypothetical scenario thread, etc. And that's not even talking about the actual undesirable things like F-List hookup general.

>>3827
Generally feel like these are good points.

>My only complaint is that I thought it would be more of a discussion post, rather than a "here's how shit goes down" post.
>Personally as far as content goes I really only think we need to get rid of stuff that is completely off topic, like VNs, card games etc. I'd hoped the conversation would not have moved as quickly into the direction of "ban it all, post this sticky, change /a/ immediately".
Seconding both of these.

As for MG threads, I had more experience with them when they were a /tg/ fixture instead of an /a/ one, but they've never really struck me as appropriate for any board outside of /d/. Why they refuse to have them on /d/ (/d/ is only dicks!!!!!), I'll never know.

>>3827
We'll make a discussion post out of all of these or at least attempt to, the final post is likely to not look like any of these fully.

The monster girl threads have their issues with quality, but in general there's a lot of discussion of the various animes/mangas that feature monster girls so I don't think they are inherently bad - wouldn't be terrible if they were policed a little more though, there's a LOT of shitposting and blatant trolling in between the genuine discussion and creativity.

Kinda the problem with them is that I don't think there IS a single board that "fits" them perfectly, but /a/ does about the best job of it. Very little of the discussion really focused on the japanese side of things there and a lot of the girls are from western legends/stories so /jp/ is straight out, there's very little NSFW content so /h/ would be an awkward fit, the discussion doesn't generally fit /e/, they aren't as focused on the grotesque as /d/ and there isn't much in the wise of dickgirls anyways nor are most of the girls actually that monstrous...

I'm not a huge fan of generals as a concept, but I think that (for lack of a better word) "quarantining" them to their generals in /a/ keeps them from spreading everywhere or splitting up discussion of what is frankly a pretty wide reaching set of things that loosely revolves around the mangas/animes/art.

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>>3816
Yes. If we're going to kick out VNs and other content to /jp/, might as well make sure the elitism doesn't get in the way. The WIXOSS threads were already "migrated" to /tg/ due to massive hostility; we don't want that to happen again when other topics are sent to /jp/. This was my main concern and the reason to why I took the "lax" stance. However, things change if the walls of elitism created by the users is broken. It is also important to remember that, judging by the archives, most of the people trying to drive /a/nons off are from the local shitposting group.

>>3831
"something must be done about /jp/" feels like it's been a recurring thing in this conversation.

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>>3828
>>3830
Not sure if this is a comment on /d/ or these particular users, but /d/ explicitly includes monster girls. Even less "monsterous" ones are allowed. Everything but generic catgirls ends up here, including things like slimes/centaurs/lamia/etc, and unless it breaks another rule like loli, furry, scat, guro, etc, I leave it up.

However, discussion and posting on /d/ does tend to be more NSFW and often includes western content and games. (And CoC. So much CoC.) It's also often focused on simple image dumps, though discussion is certainly allowed (and encouraged, as far as I'm concerned)

That said, I don't have experience with the /a/ threads, so who knows.

>>3833
the sfw/nsfw split might be the bigger issue here. Redirecting sfw discussion about sfw manga on to a board that's primary focus is nsfw content isn't a very good idea.

I don't think it's wrong for monstergirls to find a home on /a/, since there are plenty of manga and fanworks on the subject. I just thin the threads ahve progressed tot he point where they are self-perpetuating generals that are made like clockwork whether there is any content worth discussing or not. When there is content (like a new release) the threads are mostly fine, but when there isn't, they make new threads anyways and just fill them with imagedumps and shitposting, just so that they stay alive until they hit the bump limit (and then make another thread).

I think that's the problem, and that's what should be addressed about monstergirl threads.

>>3833
>That said, I don't have experience with the /a/ threads, so who knows.
One visit would tell you all you need to know about them. Back when we had 'Monster Musume no Iru Nichijou' threads it was quite enjoyable and people would talk about the next chapter and developments in the manga, it's since devolved into a general about people declaring their likes abut a particular type of monster girl, debating which monster girl of that type is best, what is "furry" or not, poster written monster girl stories, monster girl pictures... you get the picture. It's everything monster girl, and it is a general for the most part, unless some new game or manga drops, then it turns into a thread about that for a while and later reverts to MG general.

Not speaking against it, that's just how they work generally. There's a surprising amount of talking, it's not just an image dump. Images are actually not that central to the theme.

>>3805
>>3805

The threads about the Mangatraders hack have been full of what borders on posting and discussion of personal information, as well as some actual posting of personal information by one of the "hackers" (who should be in for a two week ban when the BR on him posting people's names, PayPal logins, and home addresses goes through).

Hopefully mods and /a/ janitors can keep an eye on them and make sure that crap is kept in check, if not just delete the threads entirely because honestly, there's no anime or manga in them.

After some discussion with a few janitors and moderators, here's a proposal we suggested to moot in an email. Reposting here for anybody else interested:

The other mods/janitors and I who commonly frequent /a/ wished to make a suggestion that we think may improve the browsing experience for anime/manga watchers on 4chan. I understand you’re a busy man, so I’ll try to be brief.

Current Issues with /a/
-increased post-timer making it more difficult for people to quickly post manga chapters and attract interest
-Exponential increase of userbase without the benefit of numerous board splits like /v/ has experienced with /vp/, /vg/, and /vr/
-Clutter from outright, tangentially, or vaguely off-topic threads

Possible Solution
The first issue in the above-section can be easily solved by reducing the post-timer down to 35 or 45 seconds. For the other issues, we suggest two possible options.

Option 1) Reallocation of tangentially /a/-related topics not to new boards, but already-existing boards (/c/ and /e/) with some slight modifications to their board rules. Instead of radically changing these boards, we propose that these rarely-used boards be modified from an image dumping-focused board to one that can be home to active discussion as well.

Rationale for altering /c/ and /e/:
We believe /c/ and /e/ are outdated concepts of a time when the online anime community was smaller and it was difficult to find fanart of a specific topic or character. With the proliferation of sites like danbooru, gelbooru, or exhentai, finding anime fanart has never been easier. Thus, instead of axing these two small boards, we suggest it also house general discussions of waifus. Waifu discussion will still be accepted in /a/, as long as they happen inside a thread discussing a specific show (ex. people talking about female character X in a thread about show Z).
What this move is intended for, is to relocate only tangentially on-topic threads from /a/ such as:
-What attracted you to your waifu?
-What’ll you do with your waifu for Valentine’s?
-Who homu here? (example of a “character worship” thread mainly full of image-dumping and how cute/sexy a certain character is)

Keep in mind this is distinct from threads such as “Was the action of character X in show Y right or wrong?” or “Why did character Z act like such a bitch throughout the show?” which is still /a/-material.

Also, this board can naturally accommodate threads discussing a specific character type. Examples of such threads are:
-Who is the best milf in anime?
-Why are anime lolis so huggable?
-Tsundere is the worst anime character archetype!

The dividing line between what’s /c/-content and /e/-content will be the same as now. Lewd discussion and images are /e/-material.

Option 2) If you are hesitant that the switch from an image dump-focused board to a discussion-focused board will offend too many users of those boards, then we would like to discuss the creation of a new board intended to house the discussion of topics as already outlined in option 1.

If you are willing to approve either option, the current /a/ janitors will be more than willing to put in the effort to ensure the shift goes smoothly.

>>4112

Though this discussion passed me by on here, as a regular on /a/, I think these are excellent suggestions you've all come up with. I definitely agree with a shorter post timer for posting manga and relocating waifu discussion/ character worship to /c/ and /e/. It will be a good expansion for those slower boards. I hope moot gives this consideration.

>>4112
I disagree about /c/ and /e/ being "outdated," but more importantly, I don't believe they need any modification to their rules to accommodate the kind of threads you're trying to move out of /a/. It's a misconception that discussion isn't allowed on /c/ -- discussion of characters is fairly common and coexists well with the pure image dumping, so long as people wanting to discuss their waifus also post relevant images. And honestly, I think it would be a mistake to make a deliberate allowance for image-less waifu discussion. Solitary anime characters really just don't deserve entire threads on an IMAGEboard dedicated solely to text-only rehashes on the subject of "why is she so perfect?" Character threads that have already been "moved" from /a/ to /c/ (or more accurately, merged with the /c/ threads that already existed), like Ryuko threads, have adapted fine as is.

Personally, I don't think character threads are nearly as much of a problem as /a/'s plague of off-topic ecchi threads. "What's the best anime related fetish?" "Imoutous are for _______" "So why do we hate MILFs?" "Would you lick her armpits?" and others are all repeat hits on /a/ that drop below any reasonable threshold of anime-relatedness and become contests to see who can post the most risque Gelbooru and Exhentai images without getting banned. These threads clearly belong on /e/ -- again, without any modification to /e/'s current rules -- and I think /e/ would be happy to have the content.

So, in short, /c/ and /e/ don't need changes if you would like to start moving threads to them. On the subject of SFW character threads, I think they should move to /c/ as long as they are held to a reasonable standard of quality image contribution (and lack of "I just want to fuck her so bad!!!"). I don't think /c/'s rules need to change just so /a/'s wordier character worship threads can move there without having to make a small adaptation -- particularly because /c/ already accepts discussion.

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>>4114
Just wanted to say that I agree with every point in this post.

>>4114
The problem is really the one little part at the bottom of /c/'s sticky and it's really about covering all bases.
The one thing you don't want to do is give people an argument as to why they can't move, the thing with /a/ is people don't want to go to other boards and we're trying to get them to.
Even still, a radical change to /c/ would be to figure out how to get more than just this content onto the board, this would be sending like a third of the threads on /a/ onto /c/.

>>4114
The intention isn't to change /c/ or /e/, just a simple rewording of the board rules, or perhaps just the sticky to show these posters that they are welcome to post and aren't being punted off /a/ as a punishment. We want them to post threads and replies on boards where they aren't constantly tip-toeing the lines and have to watch what they say or do when there are sister boards that exist for them.
As it is right now on /a/, it's a pain in the ass for us and stressful for them, if we can gently nudge them to where their posts belong it's going to be a win-win for us, the users and the boards.

>>4112
Late response on my part, but moot basically replied that 1) poster-timer won't be changed 2) he's okay with us re-allocating some fringe material to /c/, /e/, and /cm/ as previously discussed.

There's no need to rush this change, but for now, I would appreciate if the janitors can screencap several examples of threads that would be better off in /c/, /e/, and /cm/. We'll then combine these screencaps to go along with an official stance post so the users are clear what's /a/-material and what's not.

>>4196
Oh, and I'd appreciate it if the screencaps are taken with your janitor icon buttons disabled.

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>>4198

>>4206
mmmmmm I kinda feel this thread is ok cause it's character related in this case so this should maybe be left alone

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I made two collages

>>4220
Actually 7 shouldn't be there. I thought I had deleted it from the screencap folder, but photoshop was so zoomed out that I didn't see it when I put it together.

>>4220
>>4221
7 and 5 in my opinion.

>>4220
I want to say that two on this isn't the same as this >>4238
As two on there could be character related which is ok.

>>4238
For awhile and just today I had taken to locking these threads but putting a stop to these types of threads should happen since they aren't anime and manga related, they are what the users perceptions are so head canon.

I think also we should try to find examples of threads like some of these but that fit /a/ better and have more on topic discussion.

>>4219
3 and 7 shouldn't be there imo.

>>4227
>>4264
Just to be clear, by "not be there", do you mean that they are threads that should stay on /a/?

>>4267
Yes, imo those threads should stay on /a/.

Bump

The existing stickies on /c/ and /e/ are quite good and don't need much in terms of tweaking in order to make it clear that discussion is welcome.

/c/ Sticky

The last line needs to be removed, and the sticky needs language that briefly specifies exactly the sort of discussion that is supposed to go here. Perhaps one or two sentences long explaining the sort of character worship/waifuism stuff that should go on /c/ vs. on /a/.

/e/ Sticky

Nothing needs to be removed from this sticky, but something needs to be added to the "/e/ is for" section explaining exactly the sort of discussion that should go on /e/ vs. /a/ (e.g., discussions about body types, body parts, certain clothing, common ecchi themes, etc, and not about the series, stories, or characters themselves).

I think the existing ban request templates are fine, but the rules page for /c/ needs some tweaks to specify that discussion is welcome. Rule 1 needs to be replaced entirely with a single sentence encapsulating exactly what it is that we want to go on /c/, without infringing on /a/'s content too much. Thankfully /e/'s rules are much easier to define, and don't require much if anything in the way of changes.

Once these small changes to board rules and stickies have been finalized, then we can start drafting a temporary sticky for /a/ explaining the change in policy that we're aiming for, as well as our rationale for making the change in the first place. As has been previously said, /a/ is getting very crowded and hasn't benefited much from board splits like /v/ has. We don't want to prevent people from posting any of the things they already have been posting, but if /a/ is going to remain a board specifically about anime and manga, and not simply become an altar of character worship, then we're going to have to shuffle some topics around. The goal of the changes is not to censor to stop discussion about certain topics, but to ensure that the level of discourse in /a/ remains at its traditionally high level.

>>4354
How's this for a /c/ rule 1?
/c/ is for worksafe images and discussion about anime and manga characters/cute and "moe" characters.

Rule 2 could possibly include a mention of series discussion belonging on /a/, with an accompanying warning template.

I'd like to leave wording the sticky entirely up to another mod who has long taken care of /c/.

>>4354
Any threads related to body part worship.
"ass thread"
"Which christmas cake has the best butt" followed by a large image dump of christmas cakes.

>>4355
>"moe"
I would be careful with the use of language here. Anything can be moe, which is an ambiguity users can and will abuse to shitpost on both /a/ and /c/.

>>4396
I don't see how that wording causes a problem, although I agree it could be worded better overall. The point is that it specifies anime and manga characters—including those not necessarily "cute" in the traditional sense, since /c/ already has threads for such characters—AND also "cute/moe" characters, to include any and all animu girls. In other words, even in the event of some technicality of their origin (Kancolle and Touhou characters for example are not manga or anime characters), they all belong on /c/.

>Anything can be moe
There is no issue with the definition on /c/ currently. Despite all the talk about how /c/ is going to change in light of what's going on with /a/, I still maintain that /c/ will in fact not change, and as far as I'm concerned the only reason this rule is being rewritten is to clear up the confusion over whether character discussion is allowed on /c/ or not.

>an ambiguity users can and will abuse to shitpost on both /a/ and /c/
I do not see how this will be a problem.

Now that the new janitors are a bit more comfortable in their seats, are we going to go ahead and do something with this any time soon?

There hate for tumblr yuri and fujoshi crack shipping and constant whining about whose headcanon is more canon etc. is only growing by the minute. The meta I come across is almost exclusively focused on this issue.
Homo threads are a shadow of their former self and have since a long time ago been co-opted by the aforementioned groups, trolls false-flagging as those groups and the people who just want /a/ to be /a/ again.
Trap threads are constantly awful and its posters are only playing a game to see how far they can go before they get banned.

But the real problem isn't any of the above, its that we only really have a clear understanding on how to deal with the loli thread issue, mostly because it's easy to spot the false flaggers and threads made by more notorious posters. This makes it seem that the moderation as a whole "hates loli" but approves of the tumblr homolust and feminist astroturfing.

I personally still have no idea how to deal with it because if you delete all the infighting you have to babysit each thread until it drops off which is incredibly exhausting, boring and unfeasible. We can't just delete the posts of the side we don't like and we can't only remove the worst offenders, because both lead to one or the other side taking it as if the moderation approves of their views and their ways to go about the problem. We also can't get rid of the threads because they all hang out in the same threads about specific series, most notably SnK, and it will be intentionally misinterpreted as us banning discussion on shows we don't like.

The previously proposed changes is going to soften the blow if/when we start dealing with these entrenched users. Right now it's going to be impossible to get anything done and will only kick the "new moderation" conspiracy into overdrive.

>>4661
>The hate for tumblr yuri and fujoshi crack shipping
Is completely justified. I really struggle to see how most instances of /cm/ or /u/ or /y/ fanfiction is appropriate or on-topic content for /a/. Most of it is just outright shitposting and the same few users playing both sides to rile up overly sensitive fanbases. In the cases where it's not, it's just low-quality, contentless posting meant to desperately keep a dead general thread alive.

It's no coincidence that the threads embracing that garbage are consistently low quality.

Also, most of the posters doing it will jump ship there's any clear action against it, and find something new to shitpost with. Shipping is interchangeable with anything else, it;s just what they get away with right now so it's what they use. There no real sides here, just people pretending to be retarded and people being retarded.

>>4661
>>4662
Most of what you're discussing seems to me to be a separate issue from what has previously been discussed in this thread. I don't think there was a single mention of "shipping" here prior to your posts. Can you explain more what these supposed problems are rather than assuming our foreknowledge?

The loli thread issue should be mostly straightforward to enforce from a janitor's perspective. The threads that were targeted were singled out for being full of off-topic blogging rather than discussion centered on anime and manga. So what janitors should remove are blog posts and other off-topic clutter (yes, including "you're all pedophiles" baiting and reverse trolling). If you think there's "false-flagging" going on, and can't identify a bright-line off-topic violation, then you should ask a mod to see what's going on so they can decide what to do if anything. Mods can ban users without deleting posts and adding fuel to a "mods purging loli threads again!" fire; you can't.

>>4663
I brought it up because it's a problem that has had time to fester and doesn't show any signs of slowing down, but I believe it will correct itself given time if we go ahead with the changes previously discussed.

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that specific topic, the point of the post was to know if we are going to actually make any of these changes or if this thread is only for idle musings; we've had half a year to ponder it.

I just deleted a Kancolle thread with over 100 reports. They were not talking about the anime or the manga at all. Most of the discussion was about the game or the pics they post.

Anyone knows if Kancolle threads about the game are allowed?

>>4716
There's a general thread on /jp/ for that. The threads on /a/ should be primarily focused on the anime adaptation, various manga and the characters therein. Tangents are one thing, but I don't think game discussion is /a/ related.

A mod should probably chime in on where exactly that line should be drawn, if it needs to be drawn at all.

On a different note; try to avoid deleting an entire thread if only a small number of posters are attempting to actively derail it into off-topic or meta discussion. Threads can re-orient themselves if off-topic posts are removed, but deleting the entire thread only vindicates posters that do so deliberately to provoke us into removing threads. It's best to ping a mod if you're unsure. Unusually high numbers of reports can also indicate someone flooding the system via proxies, and you should probably notify a mod so they can verify if that is indeed the case.

Has anyone else noticed an issue with current Madoka threads on /a/? If anyone who has been here for awhile mind answering some of my questions that would be great because I'm not sure what the exact policy is regarding this.

Around a year ago when Rebellion dropped and /a/ had around 20, 30 threads in the span of a day, I noticed a pattern of a guy or maybe just a few irritated users who disliked all the threads and started arguments constantly in them, where it didn't exist before. Even on Moe, you can see a pattern of specific words that weren't common on /a/, let alone madoka threads, but now are exclusively or nearly exclusively used in these threads.

It started with arguments about canon in TDS, and then kind of evolved into complaining about crack pairings and so on.

Some common posts will sound like

>Posting crack/MamiX(whoever) again? How does it feel having so little respect for the characters?
>Threadly reminder if you like futa you are the cancer killing these threads
>Futashit/Crackshit/Crackshitters

It used to be a lot worse but I'm noticing it happening again. I understand that people have their own preferences, etc. But these arguments tend to derail the entire thread, and are a constant presence in every Madoka thread regardless of whatever is being discussed. A pic just needs to be posted and the thread just goes off the rails.

>>4756
There is no real template or real obvious rule you can apply here, except maybe 'trolling' or being somewhat off-topic but it's become a real problem. And Madoka threads that don't have these issues, especially Kyouko threads, tend to be filled with trips, sometimes 4 or 5, usually just talking about their lives with other anons and simply attaching a Madoka related picture in order to seem like they are being tangentially on topic.

There's probably no real way to deal with this properly. Deleting the threads or specific posts don't help, they'll simply make a new thread or repost it, except now they'll also complain about moderation. I know everybody is free to post their own opinions on anything related to anime/manga, and /a/ has it's own unique way of policing themselves and any obvious and heavyhanded efforts to curtail some of this kind of 'subtle' trolling or thread derailing will really irk people.

Anyways, essay over. I'm just wondering if anybody has noticed this themselves, and if you do, what you find is the best way to deal with this? I'm just sort of watching the threads outside the reports queue and just removing blatant inflammatory posts and off-topic content. Is that the best way to deal with these kind of posters?

>>4756
>>4757

Complaining about crack pairings is the callsign of a notorious ban evader, if you see that happening in a thread you should bring it to the attention of a mod, preferably one familiar with that particular evader.

Blogging posts can be ban requested for off topic if it's a recurring problem since it has nothing to do with anime or manga.

That's my two cents anyway.

>>4756
>>4758
>Complaining about crack pairings is the callsign of a notorious ban evader, if you see that happening in a thread you should bring it to the attention of a mod, preferably one familiar with that particular evader.
Correct. You're free to ban request for evasion if you can identify this poster as well, especially if they're posting leaked log screencaps and so on.

As for the tripfag issue, the Madoka threads/"generals" have indeed become a real circlejerk. I've tried warning and giving short bans for posts that go too far into blogging about life, but they're not dissuaded. There isn't any better solution to that than to any other off-topic/stagnated general on any board. Just ban request for completely off-topic posts and otherwise shrug and worry about more definite issues.

>>4757
If you're talking about the "crack ship" posts, those should be removed since they're posted by one ban evader. As for the rest of the low-quality non-discussion, there's not much to do.

Hello fellow /a/ friends,

I know we recently had a group meeting a few weeks ago but I felt like jotting down a few things I've noticed since I didn't have much to say back then.

Has anyone noticed an uptick in "ITT: best/worst/post XYZ/we do XYZ" type of threads? Sometimes, it isn't too bad and there are just a few and they tend to be alright, but other times you can find 6, 7 threads which are usually just opposites of eachother. For example, one night I saw an ITT: Worst girl, best girl, post examples of good X, post examples of bad X, and is it really worth having nearly a pages worth of these types of threads? Aside from the monthly shitposting show, which this month seems to be Umaru, /a/ can be filled with a few pages worth of really low quality discussion.

On top of that, I've also seen a lot of "Picked up X, what am I in for?" type of threads. Which are kind of similar to /pol/'s "redpill me on X" threads. Sometimes they'll turn into decent discussions about the show in question, other times just shitposting, sometimes just stealth recommendations.

Lastly, with YrYr generals, I know they're making a stink of it, but what is the plan here, just wait it out basically? They've long since outgrown having any real content in them besides blogging and imagedumps, but they bring up a good point about how the 'no generals' thing is kind of unequally enforced. Madoka threads are quite similar, except they have an even worse case of off-topic blogging, tripfagging, and if it's that time of day, anti-crack bullshit. Not to mention the numerous other large generals that usually go by unchecked, the shitposting in which usually make YrYr threads look saintly by comparison.

Just wanted to feel out some of the sentiment of the rest of the /a/ team, what you think of some of this stuff or how you personally deal with it as it comes up.

>>4835
IIRC we talked about the ITT crap, it's been going on for a few months now, same with Picked up X.
I think the latter happen because posters feel it is the only sure way to get replies and talk about a show that isn't airing even if the resulting threads are of dubious quality.

YrYr season 3 will air on monday, which means we will have to go in and clean them up for the people who watch the show, no matter what these general bloggers feel about it. It will be our chance to stomp out that particular problem.

>>4937
Of course. I made sure to bring it up during the meeting. I've seen a lot of them with older shows and while the threads are rocky, I think it's nice to have a new thread that isn't the 5th iteration of the current big airing show, but mostly I was concerned with people using them for dubious means I.E "Picked up SAO. What am I in for?" and so on. I don't mean to pick on any show but obviously we have to use our discretion when looking at these types of things because, while lots of people use said shows to troll, there are also fairly genuine people out there asking.

Either way I'm glad we talked about it, even if I'm not sure we established any sort of hard line on them because of their grey area. I don't know about you guys, but personally I think there's no real clear cut reason to remove said threads outright. I do get exasperated seeing nearly 10 of those threads up at once which are usually just mirror versions of eachother, but regardless I've adopted a 'wait and see' approach to them because after around 20 - 30 posts it's apparent what the OP intended and if the thread is just a true shitstorm or just a regular thread using typical 4chan rhetoric to start a discussion (ITT threads are very common obviously, and people DO use it to start threads with 100% intentions for good discussion)

With the Yuru issue, I've browsed YrYr threads since they aired; so I'm fairly familiar with them. Around the time the 'announcement' was going to drop (hoping for S3, we got the OVA, but S3 came eventually) a large amount of users there were actually of the opinion the threads had devolved into Madoka-style blogging, mostly about their characters, occassional arguments about males in the show and whatever. I assumed a fair amount of these users eventually got frustrated and left.

So I'm also in agreement that is going to be a good time to get all the completely off-topic blogging and I'm assuming most regulars will be happy with that decision.

I just wanted to clarify our policy on something and maybe get a discussion going.
I had been told in the past that a few particular ongoing manga series (the big 3, snk, etc.) were to be contained to days in and around their new chapter release. If there's been any change in this approach, I wasn't made aware of it.

Lately, these threads have been cropping up more and more often outside of that window. Particularly: Tokyo Ghoul, SnK, Bleach and One Piece all seem to be chaining near-constant threads in a general-like manner, with no pause or break period throughout the week or month between releases. As a consequence, the posting quality in those threads, particularly during the downtime between releases but in general as well, has declined to the point of being rather abysmal.

I think it would benefit them if we either enforced the policy I mentioned above with more solidarity, or otherwise came up with a new method to discourage threads like these from turning into generals, which they tend towards when left to their own devices. I'd personally like to see the situation within these threads improve, and I think having them less often (and more specifically, when there's actually content to discuss) would be a productive approach.

I just wanted to see other janitors and any interested mods weigh in on this. Am I making a mountain out of a molehill here?

>>5021
I see user management in the process here. Just had to delete 2 TG which became cancerous due to the shitposters complaining that it is cropping up too frequently before releases.

Also been seeing a lot of fujo hate in my reports. Now, that is not mala prohibita, but some are mala in se. It would be fine to delete them if only fujoshis are in those threads. But I suspect there are also some vocal anons there so I am in a dilemma (to delete or clear the reports) and usually just leave them hanging around for now.

There seems to be a really half-assed effort to move LNs and other non purely anime/manga material to /jp/. Is this something that's actually happening? Because moving the threads into /jp/ is like putting them to sleep.

For example Raildex threads at this point are basically full novel (and the Kono Light Novel ga Sugoi threads are half Index) given that it's nonstop talking about New Testament 14 and characters who haven't shown up in either the anime or the manga; does that make them /jp/? If you go into one having watched only the anime they'll practically laugh you out of the thread.

And I don't think anybody even pretends that the Kancolle threads are about the anime or any of the manga; it's all discussion of the series as a whole (which is first and foremost a game series) and what content-based discussion there is based on fanart or doujinshi.

>>5028
/jp/ here, yes they're being moved here and they die almost immediately and get remade back on /a/. And if they don't die, then they turn into metaposting and complaining about mods.

>>5028
LN and VN have not belonged on /a/ for years, since /jp/ was made, in fact. The fact that users are unwelcoming of thread moves shouldn't make you think those subjects are allowed.

>For example Raildex threads
There is no easy answer for threads with have current/recent anime adaptations, and that's why you'll keep seeing LN discussion no matter what we do.

>>5030
/jp/'s rule 2 states explicitly that it is the board for "light novels without an animated adaptation," which would seem to imply that those with adaptations would not be /jp/ material. As far as I can see, there's no mention of any adaptation exception or clause in /a/'s rules for light novels. However, /a/'s rule 4 does except live action series that are "distinctly rooted in, or based off of an anime or manga series." It seems odd for the written rules to explicitly except live action adaptations, but not the far more common visual and light novel ones. The rules could definitely serve to more clearly reflect the policy and full breadth of exceptions.

With that in mind, I'd argue that their ought to be a degree of leniency here. For one 'recent' is a vague word. The last animated adaptation Index had was the movie almost 3 years ago, Kancolle's adaptation was will be a year old next season, and Tsukihime still gets occasional discussion threads despite it's animated adaptation being 12 years old and retroactively expunged from the collective memory of its fanbase. For another, LNs especially are a major source of adapted content for anime, and even manga. 11 of the 40 television shows airing this season alone are light novel adaptations and the trends and popular works of that industry are very relevant to anime as it has so much influence on what shows get made and what fads emerge.

I guess I'm really just musing here, but my concern is more or less how productive this hair-splitting really is and if it could at least be better communicated to the users. I would definitely not advocate any sort of light novel general, but occasional threads discussing popular trends or awards seem at least somewhat relevant to the topic of the board, especially when the LNs in question tend to either already have an adaptation, or will likely be getting one sometime in the near future.

>>5031
I'm not sure what hairs you think are being split here. If anything, it's quite the opposite, and only what LN can be considered bright line unrelated to anime/manga are removed, leading to the conclusion in >>5028 there is a "half-assed" stance toward LN since there are so many that are ignored.

I think if anything changes it would be toward the side of strictness, because there is really no more room leniency unless LN were just allowed on /a/ wholesale.

>>5032
That's the sort of answer I wanted to hear, thanks.

My concern was mainly over seeing this: http://desustorage.org/a/thread/133710839/#133711519 moved to /jp/. It didn't really strike me as bright line unrelated since it was a discussion of the popularity rankings of LNs with anime adaptations and their characters, but there's evidently a difference in interpretation here.

>>5032
I think either LNs should just be allowed on /a/, either explicitly or by continuing the pattern where LN threads are quietly left alone with no fanfare (everybody "knows" /a/ is the LN board already anyway); or, the "no animated adaptation" rule in /jp/ should be quietly retired.

The issue here is that nobody is going to take the idea that "/jp/ is the LN board" seriously when 99% of LN discussion occurs in /a/. The special /jp/ rule practically enforces that only monstrously obscure LNs go to /jp/, which is basically carving off 1% of LN discussion from the other 99% and leaving it to die in a board that does not care about it.

Almost every LN anybody knows about gets an adaptation of some kind, often anime but also manga. Take a look at the top LN characters ranking - every single character in the top ten ranking for both genders has shown up in an animated adaptation with the single exception of Othinus from the Index novels. So the discussion of these anime characters (who are also light novel characters, but who most people on 4chan know from the anime) and all the associate requisite X-a-shit posting... belongs in /jp/? Users aren't going to figure that out and I don't blame them.

What's the policy on anime/manga-inspired Korean and Chinese animations and comics? People have been bandying around a mod post from a while back indicating that they're okay but I don't know what the current policy is, if any.

>>5156
That policy still holds for now.

Stupid drama keeps filling up the drawfag threads. Is there any point actually trying to figure out what's going on and using discretion, or something else (like clearing / deleting / ban requesting it all)

>>5213
It is drama like this (along with the SNK/Madoka threads) that drove me to >>5219
I hope my script helps to make things more understandable, though probably no less bearable.