/fringe/ - Fringe

not necessarily hate everything material, but through the realization that the ego is the one pleasuring itself through materialism is what upsets me personally. the inability for a majority of people don't admit/don't care enough to see through what they're actually doing. taking everything at face(mask/ego) value instead of interpreting further

it brings a liberation in one sense, but obviously brings an oppression at the same time. i have gotten past some of the bigger material obsessions and the traits they have, but as a result have removed these blocks to not find big enough 'anything' to fill my life in with at the moment.

sophia represents to me the female goddess energy that is not necessarily inside of us, but representative of each individual of us. she is a female as our god-energy is receptive, being the ever watching observer of our own created universe. she is you, the representation of your being human and the fact that you're human and your own (as mine) struggle to reclaim ourselves from not-ourselves.

>>11682
thanks for the answer, it sounds good to me, but is this your interpretation or is this what gnostics believe?

>>11715
mostly mine. part about sophia is generally true to gnostics however

>>11679
Your post describes me but I'm a fringe amongst gnostics.

Hobbies and shit are distractions and will waste your time that needs to be spent on avoiding being reincarnated into this material plane.

…and I hate this world because I KNOW that it is vastly inferior to the higher planes.

Also I do not value gnostic mythology OP. To me gnosticism is a personal quest for gnosis and I HATE the Christian gnostics. I want my gnosticism divorced from past influences, with only the core of what it means to be a gnostic there, but all the other shit gone.

I like Gnosticism as presented by Montalk.net

>>11727
Well thank you for the input, and im still having trouble with the Sophia part though

>>11740
Why do you hate hobbies? Also Tom Montalk has hobbies too, like making music (metal)

>>11751
Not the person you're replying to but I guess it depends on the hobby and where your hobby is on the "materialistic spectrum", playing music and obsessively collecting guitars are two different things.

I used to consume video games, movies, anime and music. Now it's just the occult. Fuck hobbies, I only want to escape now.

But everybody does their own thing. I wouldn't condemn someone for having hobbies.

>>11756
say that I put alot of work into my hair, I get a self sattisfaction from it of some sort, where would that go on the materialistic spectrum?

>>11762
what made you give up these things?

I don't we need to renounce our other activities, as long as we dedicate enough time for our practice and study. It is most important that we keep practicing regularly, and that we do "enough" of it.

I feel, however, that it is positive if we can renounce some of the activities that eat up our precious time. It would be also great if you could combine some of your practices with your hobbies; like mindfulness practices while drawing or playing an instrument, or energy-work while doing sports, (I imagine this might be possible in more "calmer" sports?), or such.

You can combine practice with your daily life, from work to school to social relationships to whatever.

These are but suggestions, though.

Now, think for a while,

what do you do in your daily life, and how much time does it take?

Then muse over this,

could I spend less time on these activities?

Think of your usage of Internet and your computer. Do you use your time watching videos on Youtube, or do you browse imageboards, or do you actually read what you should be reading?

In short, practice and then do something else… and keep practicing when doing that else!

If anything else, "Work before the fun"… though I think practicing IS fun, but I believe you understand my point.

>>11805
Could you point out the thread, if it is not too much trouble?

>>11765
Reading one Smiley thread caused a catharsis in me that set things in motion. I found the final ingredient.
Now I have no need for hobbies anymore.

>>11806
It doesn't matter which thread really. You could read anything written by Smiley. The specified thread was http://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/14456978/
I learned so much from it.

>>11807
I am aware, Smiley has taught me a lot. Thank you.

>>11764
Depends if you get satisfaction from the work or the result. and whether you show off the results I think

This is what I never understood. Why hate the material world at all? Isn't hate a manifestation of "lower" impulses, i.e. egoic, and wouldn't that simply make us continue to incarnate in this world since we're attaching ourselves to it in an alternative sense? It's like a guy leaving hundreds of angry, spiteful texts with his ex after they break up, and claiming this demonstrates he's "over her."
It's starting to become increasingly apparent to me how a lot of posters here are using "spirituality" as an excuse to wallow in their own depression and encourage others to join them. Sorry, not trying to sound like a "silly mundane" here, but reflect a little. No offense to >>11762 but this is an example of what I mean: people who have had boring, dissatisfying, reclusive lives and using it to justify hating the world, wanting to "transcend" or to escape, etc. We have an innate need to be productive, and I think it's no coincidence that those who have failed to be so, by the standards of the material world, are the same ones who hate the material world.

Why should I expend myself on hating anything, rather than be patient and enjoy the ride?

>>11843
truth be told is I do somewhat live a reclusive life (for now, hopefully it will change) and though I do find gnosticism interesting as a mythology, I cant understand why so many people would completely shun everything about the material world, it does have its ups and downs.

>>11843

The uninitiated hate materiality (the material world) because they see it as an obstacle to uniting with the higher realms rather than using it as just another means to reach them. Their heart is in the right place, but it is incorrect.

>"That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing."

As above, so below, et cetera. Fractals are a great illustration of this maxim - patterns echoing throughout the micro and macrocosm.

What should be reproached is materialism: the false belief that material reality is the only reality. Materialists see material as just some happenstance machination of itself that appeared "just because" rather than following a higher order of rules (pattern). Because if you can't see what's going on behind the curtain, you are more likely to take it for granted and carry on your way.

People who are materialist (the overwhelming majority of people - AKA mundanes) only see chaos when they try to understand reality - they can't trust themselves and they can never understand the higher order of things, and trust that what little order is afforded to them comes from human artifice and the small understanding of their own minds.

Materialism is more pervasive than just liking nice things or having money for vain reasons, as it is possible to use material resources as just another stepping stone to advance your spiritual understanding instead of seeking them for their own sake, like your computer or phone to read texts, or taking supplements and eating clean. Being mindful helps too.

See: vedanta, initiation into hermetics

>>11845
This is the case with me too, which is why I feel particularly frustrated, because the beliefs /fringe/ has handed me in my spiritual quest ended up worsening my condition, until I've begun pulling myself out of it. /fringe/ helped me become disillusioned, now in some ways I'm feeling disillusioned with /fringe/, and almost ashamed at the prospect that I was led to believe something by - to be brutally honest, because it's necessary - a bunch of depressed, self-effacing basement dwellers who emotionally rely on those beliefs to feel fulfilled with an otherwise empty life, or try to sublimate their bleakness into something they peddle as righteous and enlightened. It's really damn frustrating in fact, and weirdly enough, I'd prefer not convincing myself that I ought to be depressed and full of hate to feel satisfied with myself.

>>11846
Rather synchronous you bring up the fractal nature of the universe, because it's something I've been intuiting a lot lately. The material world is a grand thought in the mind of "God" (or something), and within it is each individual consciousness which is itself a microcosm of this "God" consciousness; simultaneously co-inhabiting, co-experiencing, and co-creating reality itself. It's a beautiful arrangement, especially in that it implies each individual holds a universe within. Unless I'm completely off the mark, but whatever.
And I couldn't agree more with your thoughts on materialism. It's extremely difficult to detach yourself from such a worldview, which has been one of my largest stepping stones. For me, pondering the "hard problem of consciousness" was what really started shaking things up for me.

I've heard that beings in astral play video games. When I think of it, it sounds that astral beings have a lot of fun! And they cuddle with each other, seek love and warmth… it's a whole different world compared to /fringe/.

And Franz Bardon! He had a wife - and he was a Hermeticist, and quite a good one, one of the greatest! He still visited the movies with his wife even though he practiced magic. (After having finished his daily practices, of course!) And he had a sex life. Even entities in 4D have sex!

What /fringe/ is advocating, I think, is strict Gnostic asceticism. I prefer the view Hermeticists hold, that is, their world-view is "poetic instead of ascetic". To me, poetic world-view implies appreciation of the beauty of Nature as it is, (something that many here denounce because "it's not astral), and enjoyment of life in all of its aspects, both positive and negative.

I don't think we need to become ascetics to do magic. We should realize, though, that there's "more to this all", but it doesn't mean, I think, that you need to throw everything away. You can still enjoy things! You can still enjoy life!

Think of it, you have been given a life so that you can experience Life, while ascending towards the One. Why make the experience a negative one?

>>11762
Any tips on breaking free of consumption based hobbies or is it something that just fell into place for you?

Consumption based hobbies are so empty, but i struggle to renounce them permanently.

>>11878
Not him, but maybe you should reduce the time you use on those little by little.

Let's say you play video games for 4 hours. Put an alarm to… well, alarm after 3 hours and 40 minutes. Then keep reducing by 5 minutes a day or so.

Give yourself a goal, like, "I will reduce my time spent on X by Y minutes each day, until at the end of Z I spend only (this much) on that activity." Then see if you want to do that activity at all anymore.

This is basically reverse of adopting a new activity. Instead of adding up time you spend on what you want to do, you decrease the time spent on what you don't want to do anymore.

>>11851
>This is the case with me too, which is why I feel particularly frustrated, because the beliefs /fringe/ has handed me in my spiritual quest ended up worsening my condition, until I've begun pulling myself out of it. /fringe/ helped me become disillusioned, now in some ways I'm feeling disillusioned with /fringe/, and almost ashamed at the prospect that I was led to believe something by - to be brutally honest, because it's necessary - a bunch of depressed, self-effacing basement dwellers who emotionally rely on those beliefs to feel fulfilled with an otherwise empty life, or try to sublimate their bleakness into something they peddle as righteous and enlightened. It's really damn frustrating in fact, and weirdly enough, I'd prefer not convincing myself that I ought to be depressed and full of hate to feel satisfied with myself.

I'm glad you have been with us enough time to notice that. You're not the only one, but don't

worry about it, the userbase of /fringe/ and its beliefs can be very flawed sometimes, but

everything has its place and role under the sky. /fringe/ wouldn't have ever been a thing without

all its pros and cons. Presumptuous/opinionated edgelords and basement dwellers are very little

secretive about the occult. They love to boast with their knowledge and successes at every

opportunity, that can turn off some people, but in truth it's a wonderful tactique to arouse and

interest people on magick. I see /fringe/ as a gateway into the magickal path, a sort of neophyte

generator. It won't satisfy someone who is beyond that point of the path.


You sound serious and honest. Do you feel like you have "graduated" from this place's initiatory

procedure? It would be best then not to linger here, keep evolving, you should know your unique

path to follow.

I find myself coming back here to visit sometimes, and I also see everything that makes /fringe/

unsuitable for my progress, but I don't worry about it, knowing that all this is playing its role for

the development of other people.


BTW, I strongly recommend every wizard here, especially hermeticists to complement magick

with Yoga. Magick doesn't raise your counsciousness very far until you get to the higher stages,

most of your magickal progress WILL be lost if you don't get to make your astral body immortal,

you will reincarnate with a new astral body, not with the old one wich was magickally developed.

Yoga is like an arrow, the straightest path into samadhi/henosis. None of the progress made with

yoga is ever in vain and will not be lost even if you die too early. Yoga streghtens counsciousness,

aka spirit. Hermetic magick has the same goal of yoga, but its journey is exceptionally longer,

bigger and more ambitious. It can blossom on the most beautiful fruit, but it requires way more

time and risks to grow compared to the fast fruit of yoga. Growing both at the same time makes

for an almost perfect combination. Yoga will improve your magick to great extents and magick

will also improve your yoga.

Having said that, I will also provide you with a pastebin, as getting well informed about yoga is

pretty hard with all the misinfo there is: http://pastebin.com/SihWHG5s


Back on topic: I think there is absolutely no need to hate the material plane to trascend it.

That hate will bind anyone closer to it, it won't free them. Detachment is the only attitude needed,

hating maya is a childish approach to try and detach oneself from it. When one finds out the illusory

nature of maya, one can become disappointed and angry. It's fake! It's suffering! One thinks,

but he isn't even close to understanding the true nature of maya. One who suffers

and hates cannot see maya, he is not yet able to deeply acknowledge that it's illusory. He is suffering

and hating the fact that he still believes on maya. That he can't dispel the enchantment.

Enlightened men see maya as what it is. Why to suffer because of an infinitely complex, ever-changing

ethereal work of art? Maya can be perceived as something marvelously beautiful and illusory at the same time.

Get closer to Spirit, go back to your sacred homeland of pure counsciousness, knowledge and bliss (satchidananda)

then look back, and the material world will amaze you as the masterpiece it is. No loss on the material world

will ever affect you, because while habitating spirit you already will have and be everything there is.

Achieve Henosis.

>>11885
I want to thank you, my friend, for the information you have shared with us. For some time now I have been very interested in learning yoga, but alas, haven't had any clear idea where to start such a practice!

Thank you very much, friend, and fare well on your path.

>>11878
Well, for me it just happened. It felt like a natural progress, now "I" feel like a game character that I want to develop. Emotions play a big role here.
Maybe you just have to ask yourself what you gain from your hobbies, what drives you to consume them and work from there. Also, learning to astral project and lucid dream will immensely help.

>>11888

It makes me happy to know that my long-ass post had the occult purpose of helping you. For me yoga has joined together key pieces of my path, it was like when I first discovered hermeticism. I want to share this blessing like it has been shared to me. Good luck, brother.

The two books on the pastebin will provide you with a strong foundation for you to start your practice and easily keep studying on your own afterwards. There are also two ancient yogic scriptures who may interest you later on, namely the Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads.

May light keep shining upon you.

>>11885
Thank you very much for the resources, and for the optimistic words. You've elucidated the exact attitude I've realized is most rational and most pragmatic for a person. You can cry "this world's just an illusion" - but so? Isn't it a beautiful and majestic illusion? Isn't your hatred towards it a form of fixation, meaning you're "buying into" the illusion as well? Isn't it as much a material desire to want to escape this world as any other material desire which you condemn? Don't you think you might have certain "lessons" that need learning in this world before you die, and your foregoing of it could be too hasty for your own good? It all doesn't add up, and it's leading people astray. It's falling back into a dualistic scheme - X is Y therefore X is "bad" to me. I think these people severely overestimate their level of transcendence if they think having a negative emotional response to something is a form of transcending it.

As for your question to me, yes, I feel like I've moved past this board in some regards, though I like to return once in a while. In terms of the metaphysical, and higher states of consciousness, I'm still a neophyte. I have some experience with very weak things - i.e. manifesting things through magick that aren't very spectacular, and strange phenomena appearing before me, but I'm still in the process of familiarizing myself with the nature of everything conceptually, of working out my inner weaknesses, of thought control, philosophy, etc. I have yet to even astral project. I feel as though I'm ready to buckle down and really get to work, however. I just needed to cut myself loose from this "master" to which I've been looking desperately for answers, and see that I'm on my own path now, as you said.

Anyone interested in Gnosticism, if it doesn't immediately resonate with you and offer a framework to begin to explain your experiences, don't bother; being an armchair gnostic who knows the history and various nuances of the gnostic movement isn't the same as achieving personal gnosis and experiencing gnostically.

Also listen to this shit for several hours straight: https://www.youtube.com/user/GnosticNYC

>>11865
I just spent an entire day in the astral playing various videogames until my PC got the astral equivalent of a computer virus and was flooded with shock material…

>Think of it, you have been given a life so that you can experience Life, while ascending towards the One. Why make the experience a negative one?

It's not a gift to be here, life was not lent to me, and I won't come back to shit shit. What's more is that failure to ascend will be punished with more ignorance and further reincarnations that could drag on for endless lives before I make a proper effort again to break free. I am aware of the problem in this life and am going to do all I can to escape this shithole.

Also to me the things you probably enjoy are not enjoyable at all and just things I don't want to do. I'm inclined to asceticism naturally and it sickens me to think of trying to live as a hedonist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVJovfUiW5E

Aeon Byte Gnostic Radio is neat too for getting an overview of that Gnostic Feel.

>>11903

I agree with your thinking, and I'm also a neophyte with decades left to forge an adept in the fires of initiation and rigorous spiritual practice.

Good luck man. We'll meet again sometime.

>>11903
>hurr durr we have lessons to learn
>meanwhile, perfect beings could teach you it in an instance

The idea of "we have lessons to learn" is VERY SHIT and has been refuted by so many philosophers so many times over. Even The Arcane Teachings refutes that idea too.

We're not here for a reason or purpose, we don't have anything to learn, escaping this world is not a "material desire" at all, and this world btw is NOT beautiful at all; it's the 240p compared to the 720p of the astral, the old XBOX graphics compared to the XBOX ONE level of graphics.

…and no this is not dualistic either. The other world is not an opposite world, therefore it's not a duality.

This world deserves to be hated and despised. It can be foolish to do it, just like listening to the news all the time can ultimately eat up a lot of your life and stress you out, but it absolutely deserves it. One needs to learn to cool the hatred though and recognize this world for the inferior manifestation it is and move on beyond it. One should adopt the attitude of the cold sadistic psychopath who looks at people and thinks of tearing their bodies to pieces with a smile on the face. One must maintain a happy, positive attitude; with an awareness that all around them is hell. They certainly shouldn't start loving it or having an attachment to it or thinking it's a beautiful illusion or any of that shit you suggest.

I believe you're falling way off the path with these delusional ideas you're spouting and will not make it out of here if you keep it up.

>I have yet to even astral project.

This right here explains pretty much your whole post and your attitude. I've been APing for a long time and doing higher magick and am years ahead of you; you haven't even begun upon what to me is very basic.

This whole world is a kind of mental virus and a spiritual blackhole that has drawn in spirit and made it forget its true power.

>>11950
Ignore him he's full of shit and has all the basic facts wrong.

While it's true that despairing over one's situation in this realm of the demiurge is crippling and non-productive that doesn't mean this world isn't something to be reviled, it just means you need to focus, and file it away and carry on your ascent without dwelling too much on the innate aversion of your spirit to this lowly realm.

You can hate something and work towards its destruction while not actually letting your hate be expressed or felt.

Like… how to make this really clear.

It's possible to very much hate something and recognize something as bad while not dwelling on it and not feeling the hate. The hatred could be indulged in but you just don't.

>>11955
Oh boy, and now an argument.

Please define to me what a perfect being is, and are you one of them?
>The idea of "we have lessons to learn" is VERY SHIT and has been refuted by so many philosophers so many times over.
Well two things: 1. I presented that point rhetorically in order to avoid stating it as absolute truth, so don't misinterpret me. It wasn't even my main point. 2. Would you mind elaborating on how it's refuted, out of curiosity?
>We're not here for a reason or purpose, we don't have anything to learn, escaping this world is not a "material desire" at all, and this world btw is NOT beautiful at all
"You're wrong about THIS, you're wrong about THIS, and you're wrong about THIS." Well good for you for pointing all this out, but it doesn't mean much without a semblance of reasoning behind it. I don't get why you approach this so dogmatically. And focusing on:
>escaping this world is not a "material desire" at all
It's a desire nonetheless, based on your personal fulfillment or the lack thereof, manifesting in the same way a "material desire" might: hating simple/cheap food and wanting gourmet food instead; hating a car and wanting a new, better one; hating the place you live and wanting to go somewhere more beautiful. Hatred is a part of dualistic thinking, the kind of thinking that leads to endless cycles of satisfaction and dissatisfaction. Am I wrong here?
You should have instead addressed the most important point I made: isn't hatred towards a thing just a different form of being attached to that thing? In other words, by hating the world, you're not doing anything towards escaping it, but confining yourself to it more so, because now it's bound to you through your hatred. This is why I say it's useless and works against you.
>and no this is not dualistic either.
>The other world is not an opposite world, therefore it's not a duality.
What do you even mean by this? See above for what I meant about duality. I mean you're judging reality in dichotomous terms, which as far as I can tell, is a part of maya.
>This world deserves to be hated and despised.
One could argue that so do plenty of people, but it's up to you whether or not you actually want to hate them, or feel any negative emotion like anger or disgust. Just because actions are justified in your eyes doesn't mean they ought to be pursued by you. All I've been talking about is the latter issue: not pursuing the hatred because it's fruitless and unpleasant to feel.
>One needs to learn to cool the hatred though and recognize this world for the inferior manifestation it is and move on beyond it.
That's what I've been saying, sourpuss. By "cool" the hatred, don't you simply mean remove the hatred and not experience it? It's a state of mind, and states of mind are transient, so there's no difference between - in a given moment - having your hatred "cooled" and having no hatred at all. We're agreeing.
>One should adopt the attitude of the cold sadistic psychopath who looks at people and thinks of tearing their bodies to pieces with a smile on the face.
Good heavens, don't make me break my nofap pledge.
>I've been APing for a long time and doing higher magick and am years ahead of you; you haven't even begun upon what to me is very basic.
Why do you feel the need to reassure me of how "far ahead" of me you are? So I'll take you more seriously? Perhaps, if you're so disdainful towards materiality, you should work on dropping this reactive dick-swinging ape instinct of yours.
>This whole world is a kind of mental virus and a spiritual blackhole that has drawn in spirit and made it forget its true power.
Consider the idea that hatred plays a part in that.

>>11958
>It's possible to very much hate something and recognize something as bad while not dwelling on it and not feeling the hate.
>to very much hate something
>not feeling the hate.
Do you think you experience things beyond what you're experiencing in the present moment? Let me reword your sentence: "It's possible to very much feel pain and recognize something has caused you pain while not dwelling on it and not feeling the pain." A person can feasibly distract themselves from their pain by being absorbed in something else, but the pain lingers as a "background" sensation nonetheless. But if a person were to somehow find a way to utterly erase the pain from their conscious mind, well then we could say that the pain has ceased to exist altogether. There's no pain without the conscious experience of pain, and same goes for the sensation of hatred.
So you're essentially validating my point and I'm not so full of shit after all: hate is unnecessary, if not counterproductive, and ought to be removed from the mind if you want to get anywhere.

Now can't we all just get along?

>>11955

>not here to learn
Then why are we here, master?

>refuted by philosophers
You're after my loosh, aren't you