/fringe/ - Fringe

>Vajrayana masters generate/channel enlightened Yidams into their minds

>Synchronize the Yidam with their mind, erasing the mundane consciousness and entering directly into divinity

<have friend create yidam/tulpa of straight dude

<when it's strong enough have it erase his previous personality and take over

If bronies can make tulpas I don't see why he can't. This would simply be an act of replacing one thoughtform with another.

>>121342

Don't try to force this acceptance on him though. This cannot be done, nor would it be in any way beneficial to him even if it was possible.

Don't even present meditation as something that can help him accept himself. Present it as a tool - a tool which purpose is to know. You can even be sneaky and tell him that he can't effect this change blindly, that first he needs to know himself to be able to change himself. If he undertakes the practice of meditation, even with such a view, and gains insight because of it - this will be enough. In the presence of real insight and experiential knowledge of his thoughts and emotions nothing illusory can persist. It may take time, but once he begins to know himself he will see how deluded he was in running away from himself. He will start to pierce through layers of delusion and social programming to find himself, and in this way - he will find peace.

If you want some materials on meditation - just say so and I will provide.

>>121387

>Even dogs, cats, ducks and so on successfully penis into vagina all the time.

They're puppies,kittens, and ducklings until they do. Point is you're not a certified adult male of your species until you have sex with the opposite gender.

>>121393

>>121389

>My advice - teach him meditation so he can learn how to be with his thoughts and feelings without running from them. There is no strength in avoidance of the things that make us afraid, but there is in a direct confrontation with them. If you have other LGBT friends then maybe try to put him in contact with them so that he doesn't feel alone in this. And well - just be there for him, accept him, give him a positive example

Thank you for the quality response, however I neglected to mention in the OP that he's my roommate also (wasn't relevant at the time).

I've been very sincere and devout in my own practice for a number of years, and we've both been roommates now for about seven months. I've gotten him to meditate with me on numerous occasions, basic anapanasati, from the context of "stress relief", and there was one time I even got him to do mala-japa with me. He only lasted till about the count of 50, then just gave up in frustration. Afterwards he expressed to me that it's bullshit and he felt nothing. The chanting was an attempt on my part to use another medium for him to attain some basic clarity of mind without raw, basic meditation, which he also seems to dislike.

>Tulpas can only fuck you up more if you already feel fucked up. They can also fuck you up even if you don't. Generally tulpas aren't the best option

When somebody is already talking about taking their own life, is any measure truly too extreme? I suppose I can apply pressure again, try to get him to practice with me, but it's just damn hard sparking interest/dedication in another human being. He was exercising regularly with me for the past seven months also, he ended up losing about 20 pounds too from it too, but the day my work schedule changed and I couldn't go to the gym with him at the same time anymore he immediately stopped and hasn't been back. It feels like I'm trying to boil water here, and the second I can't devote my full attention to the boiling anymore it ceases.

Creating a tulpa would at least be an engaging, creative process that would also cure his loneliness when it starts gaining sentience.

>He can also seek divine help in this process of self-discovery. The heavens smile upon those who fight to be themselves and endure many ordeals to protect their nature

When he gets home in a little bit I'll ask him to come and meditate with me again. Then later I'll also ask about the tulpa thing, get his thoughts on the matter, and also ask about him simply attempting prayer. Bhakti could work if he gets it to trigger. His parents are very radical Pentecostals though, the kind that walk around praying outloud and talking in tongues. They're also very opposed to homosexuality and openly talk about God sending gays to Hell.

Their influence is probably the root of the issue really, and it's seemed to have given him a strong inclination against God, religion, and spirituality in general.

It's a tricky situation. Thanks again for your words though.

>>121394

>Point is you're not a certified adult male of your species until you have sex with the opposite gender.

Your point perhaps. You become an adult of any species when you reach sexual maturity, at which point you are 'capable' of reproduction.

>>121395

When you create a tulpa you put power into something that you don't fully control. Giving strength to something other than yourself, depending on something other than yourself, is never the wisest course of action. How many "powerful tulpa" threads does it take until you guys know this?

Tulpamancy is by it's nature very dangerous. You create a conscious entity that is a purely artifical construct, that doesn't have a karmic background. You are fully responsible for that entity, with your very life perhaps. Creating something as complex is a terrible task.

Imagine creating a child, a newborn, and putting it a full grown adult body, with all it's perks and cons. Now if that isn't a recipe for a disaster I don't know what is. We all have karmic tendencies. Lessons we learned during the course of uncountable incarnations. Take that away and you have a being that is totally uncontrollable, unpredictable. Of course in most cases tulpas never reach full sentiency and are just toys for their "owners" to fulfill pony fantasies or what have you. In other cases the results can be unpleasant.

With such complex scenarios it's never as easy as "ey lmao just merge with thoughtform mane".

Anyway - what makes you think that metamorphosis is different than escapism? It is not always so of course, sometimes it unfolds naturally, but if you try and force metamorphosis out of fear of who you are and desire to be someone else - then yes, it is just escapism.

By the way - why do you think there is some special connection between hinduism and metamorphosis? The term hinduism is a misnomer anyway since hinduism consists of many sects and only from XVIII century onwards we can speak about single mainstream hindu religion.

>>121396

>Creating a tulpa would at least be an engaging, creative process that would also cure his loneliness when it starts gaining sentience.

Even if he creates a full-blown tulpa it won't change this situation in any way. Even if he "merges" with it, that's just another layer of illusion.

Moreover, such an act will only create further karmic seeds that will perhaps grow in future lifetimes. He has to deal with the lack of self-acceptance sooner or later. It's not even about his sexuality as much as it is about his refusal to just 'look' into himself.

Anyway, that's yours, and his, choice. Just be sure that you are doing the right thing in regards to him. The way I see it - insight and knowledge of one's mind is never a bad thing, no matter the circumstances, so I am strongly leaning to him just undertaking a serious meditation practice instead of creating a tulpa.

But yeah - that's a really fucked up situation and I feel for him and you both. You can't save him, only he can do that.

One idea that I have - maybe dedicate merit to him to spark his interest in meditation? That would be a noble thing to do.

>>121407

>Get him stoned

Drugs never solved anything, all they ever did was create more confusion.

>mind body dualism

kek

>>121414

>Even if he creates a full-blown tulpa it won't change this situation in any way. Even if he "merges" with it, that's just another layer of illusion

There's already so many illusions at play here, I doubt another one could truly mess things up that much worse.

>Tulpamancy is by it's nature very dangerous. You create a conscious entity that is a purely artifical construct, that doesn't have a karmic background

Why would you think that a tulpa doesn't have a karmic background? True creation doesn't exist, the 1st law of thermodynamics teaches us this. The present energy that composes our forms has already been around for an eternity and will continue to do so. Consciousness continues forward, regardless of whether embodied in the flesh like we are presently, or in a more abstract form such as a tulpa. I'm no great master myself and can't speak from direct experience here, but I would imagine that a tulpa existed before conjured forth in a practitioners mind.

Perhaps for shilling tulpamancy here in my next lifetime I'll be forced into the body of a small pink pony, trapped inside of an obese man's mind. Assuming I don't anuttara samyak sambodhi this time.

>Anyway, that's yours, and his, choice. Just be sure that you are doing the right thing in regards to him. The way I see it - insight and knowledge of one's mind is never a bad thing, no matter the circumstances, so I am strongly leaning to him just undertaking a serious meditation practice instead of creating a tulpa

I agree 100% there. Understanding the mind will always improve ones life.

To update on the situation now

<invite him to meditate with me over text when he gets home

<comes home high after chilling with pothead friends of his

<he seems enthusiastic about meditating

<we go out to the room I have set aside for it

<sets his alarm for 30 mins, when before I've never seen him sit still for 10

<tell him maybe he should set the alarm for a little bit less time

<he sets it to 25 mins

<meditating with eyes half open like usual, see him in the corner of my eye squirming, moving his hands and playing with his phone briefly

<after maybe mins he gets up and leaves

<later when I finish we have a serious talk about the whole thing

<drop my tulpa idea on him

<he calls it insane, and says that what would be best for him is probably just coming to terms with himself and his sexuality, accepting that he's gay

Definitely a step in the right direction.

>>121424

>Why would you think that a tulpa doesn't have a karmic background?

Karma implies grasping.

>The present energy that composes our forms has already been around for an eternity

Energy can't graps after anything, it simply is. Only more complex patterns of energy - i.e. beings can grasp and desire and perform actions. Since tulpa as a separate pattern in energy hasn't existed before it's creation then it is only logical that it doesn't have a karmic background, else everything would have it (since composed of this energy). Does a stone have a karmic background and will incarnate? If so, then when? After the Earth dies in a supernova? But stone itself is composed of particles, would a stone reincarnate as a whole or would every particle has it's own incarnation? Maybe lets go to the level of quarks? Using this same logic - I wouldn't incarnate as me, but every quark in my body would have it's own separate incarnation. That is just absurd.

>a tulpa existed before conjured forth in a practitioners mind

Existed as what? If it pre-existed in the form practitioner has in mind then we aren't speaking about tulpamancy but about posession. The whole point of tulpamancy is creating your own entity by your own efforts.

>Definitely a step in the right direction.

Agreed, he will figure it out. Too bad he doesn't want to meditate but he probably isn't ready yet.

>>121432

>Existed as what? If it pre-existed in the form practitioner has in mind then we aren't speaking about tulpamancy but about posession. The whole point of tulpamancy is creating your own entity by your own efforts

We're getting far away from the practical realm of my own at least personal experience, however I think we're perceiving tulpas and the act of creating them in two different manners. If one creates an empty thoughtform, void of sentience, then it's simply a conditioned object, lacking consciousness though it may talk and interact in the manner of a chatbot online. It's like taking a dead block of wood and carving a dead statue.

If on the other hand though, there is sentience, then the tulpamancer did not create the consciousness itself. Consciousness cannot be created. It may only be channeled. When two parents have sex and spawn a child, that consciousness already existed in another time/form/place, they merely transformed a pool of energy into a vessel that then brought another being into this world. There was no true creation. This is how I perceive the act of creating a high level, sentient thoughtform. Its consciousness was there already, it existed already, however then a man created a body for it to inhabit.

I suppose tulpa is simply an umbrella term for a variety of different entities- ranging from mindless playthings to a Sakyapa yogi channeling Vajrayogini.

>Agreed, he will figure it out. Too bad he doesn't want to meditate but he probably isn't ready yet.

It's funny. He would rage at me in the past when I would tell him it's perfectly cool to be gay and that he just needs to forget the fire and brimstone bullshit his parents indoctrinated with growing up. However it wasn't until I came up with this crazy idea of replacing sections of his mind with a tulpa that he cooled down and realized he just needs to accept himself already.

Presenting him with that level of insanity helped him see the alternative and reasonable path of acceptance.

>>121475

>we're perceiving tulpas and the act of creating them in two different manners

We aren't.

>the tulpamancer did not create the consciousness itself

Of course not, consciousness isn't something you create. It just is. It is the only thing that is, because without being conscious you can't perceive anything.

>that consciousness already existed in another time/form/place

My viewpoint is informed by Trika Tantra and "Consciousness-only" Buddhist schools (and personal experience). Basically I view consciousness as undifferentiated and above karma and any limitation. It is just a ground of any being. You can have patterns in this consciousness and said patterns can undergo change and have their own karmas, but consciousness as such cannot. In your view consciousness is not in any way different than limited personality, since it is individual. Of course consciousness was already there. Consciousness is everything, since nothing can exist if you are not conscious of it. Nevertheless it seems to me you are conflating personality and limited individual with unlimited ground of being.

Consciousness is just that - being. With no differentiation, with no patterns. It is something that allows for those patterns to occur. Now I may think myself as a sad individual. In this example - there is this thought of sadness. This thought is what is known, my limited being is the knower and my awareness of it is the process of knowing. Now consciousness is what allows each element of this interaction to exist. Moreover, it is both the known, the knower and knowing. It is just consciousness looking at itself.

In your view there are different "consciousnesses" since consciousness of any being (in this example - tulpa) already exists in a pre-defined form ready to be channeled into vessel, but in fact consciousness is empty and it is the same emptiness for any individual. When you are deep in meditation in a state of no thoughts you may enter samadhi. Now what do you experience when there are no thoughts?

>>121494

>It is not hard at all to will away sexual thoughts or to just change what you're attracted to

And what would be the point of that? What is there to gain and learn from living such a life?

>>121540

>Basically I view consciousness as undifferentiated and above karma and any limitation. It is just a ground of any being. You can have patterns in this consciousness and said patterns can undergo change and have their own karmas, but consciousness as such cannot

Yes, exactly. Perhaps I haven't made this clear in my previous posts, but I agree fully that consciousness is the grounding of all reality, the platform from which absolutely everything arises.

>In your view consciousness is not in any way different than limited personality, since it is individual. Of course consciousness was already there. Consciousness is everything, since nothing can exist if you are not conscious of it. Nevertheless it seems to me you are conflating personality and limited individual with unlimited ground of being

I would describe consciousness as the sun, where its light may be channeled through an infinite variety of glass, crystals, etc. This will all dramatically change the appearance of the rays, and they'll operate differently in each vessel, however in the end- light is just light.

Or to use a better metaphor, consciousness is the radio waves, the physical brain is the radio, and our mind (the field of projection created by the physical brain) is the music that plays from the radio. The radio itself will break down over time, being a temporary conditioned thing, and the music itself may become garbled as the speakers fray, however that which entered into the radio will not decay.

>In your view there are different "consciousnesses" since consciousness of any being (in this example - tulpa) already exists in a pre-defined form ready to be channeled into vessel, but in fact consciousness is empty and it is the same emptiness for any individual

Though at the root of my present vessel, and your own, the raw consciousness is one and the same, it's very clear that these two nodes of identical substance are welling up in what appears to be separate times and places. Like an underground spring with two different wells. When I said that the tulpa had its consciousness existing previously, I wasn't talking about some special individual nature that could never be found, I was just talking about a raw node of consciousness still grasping to perceived individuality and thus being reborn elsewhere. The mind, personality, opinions, etc. are all temporary conditioned things imprinted in the physical brain, which die when the body dies. All that continues forward is the wave of consciousness, riding the same infinite ocean, based on its previous momentum.

>When you are deep in meditation in a state of no thoughts you may enter samadhi. Now what do you experience when there are no thoughts?

Hmmm, I don't think I've quite entered the heights of samadhi just yet, however based on my experience in the lesser dhyanas I would say all that remains is awareness itself. When the senses, the body, and the breath all vanish, all that remains is the knower knowing.

>>121545

>a raw node of consciousness still grasping to perceived individuality

If it is just a raw node of consciousness then how can it grasp to individuality? For that it would have to have some traces of mind and personality that would do the grasping - some habitual energies that still cling onto dualistic existence - hence these are all still patterns in consciousness and not consciousness as such.

>I wasn't talking about some special individual nature

But if you have mutually different nodes of consciousness then they have to have some objectivity, some individuality to separate them from one another.

>All that continues forward is the wave of consciousness, riding the same infinite ocean, based on its previous momentum

What then prevents this wave from merging into this infinite ocean?

I see the process of creation of a tulpa as giving form to consciousness, solidifying it, until it is solid and complex enough to have sentience. Much like a thought appears and solidifies itself from undifferentiated consciousness in order to be perceived. Since tulpas are made from, and are, thoughtforms then the difference between them and thoughts is the one of degree. Since we may agree, or at least I think we do, that thoughts do not have karmas, then why would a tulpa have one?

>>121570

>But if you have mutually different nodes of consciousness then they have to have some objectivity, some individuality to separate them from one another

This is true I suppose. On one level we are all Brahman/Shiva etc. and then on the other we're all functioning in the mundane realm in different bodies wearing different masks. The notions of individuality are constantly in flux, as are all the other aggregates that compose our essence apart from the unconditioned base, but nevertheless they're there.

>What then prevents this wave from merging into this infinite ocean?

It's always been a part of the ocean, though it may not be aware of it. The task of one who wishes to realize his unity with the ocean would then be to rid the mind of the obfuscations hiding this truth, or alternatively to realize the hindrances themselves are too a part of the ocean.

As the Platform Sutra says, "The afflictions themselves are bodhi."

>Since we may agree, or at least I think we do, that thoughts do not have karmas, then why would a tulpa have one?

Karma is simply the law of cause and effect, isn't it? Touch fire and be burned. Think and act with anger, have such anger returned to you. Well the death of one thought creates the basis of origin for the next, and also of course greatly influences its content. Perhaps my understand of karma is incorrect, but it appears as though there's something akin to karma working. Karmas honestly never been a topic I've looked much into though. From my beginner's perspective it seems like the wisest course of action is to simply do the right thing in each and every moment, and let karma take care of itself.

>>121575

>Why are you trying to save him? Seems like he really doesn't want to be helped. Let him have the tragic story he wants to have

He's been there for me in the past, and it feels like it would be wrong to just drop him. I just don't see what more I can do. Sometimes people need to fuck up and hurt themselves in order to learn things. When/if that happens though it'll negatively impact me and my living environment.

Earlier today he came into work late again, high as a kite, and had the boss yell at him again for being late. He's going to get his ass fired because he can't control himself or his urges to go blaze weed with his shithead stoner friends.

Goddamn it's irritating seeing people intentionally do stupid things.

Show pictures of kittens. <3

>>121930

>>121931

>>121937

triggered kek

>>121748

>don't joke, you're probably referring to yourself if you are an INFJ though these are just my 2 cents

I know people do that all the time, and in the past on wizardchan I've done it myself to get around the rules there, however this isn't one of those times. My best friend really is a gay dude who hates himself. As far as the xeno/phytoestrogens go, the two of us avoid those entirely. I'm a huge /fit/izen also, and am very very devout with my diet and exercise regiment. He's out of shape at the moment but is coming around to adopting my healthy habits.

>Men are naturally aggressive and if your friend still have that aggressiveness then he still have a huge chance to leap out of it.

What does aggression have to do with anything? My practice has made me naturally stoic and calm in most situations. Confident, but I would never describe myself as aggressive and I'm basically a caricature of masculinity.

>>121829

Female friends are actually a thing? I didn't think the two sexes socialized except to court one another, except for the occasional situation where one or both parties is disqualified romantically- such as being taken already, deformed, celibate, etc.

I know I don't know any females at all, except for older married women at work, young women I've dated, or those I plan on dating.

>>121845

>Either way he needs support, not reprogramming, if he seriously wants to use the occult as a means of helping himself, start with books and sigils of his/your favorite deities, and ask them to help you with your mind. keep this on a semi-regular basis.

Normally he claims to be an atheist, or he'll angrily proclaim that there is no god, but lately I've become aware that despite his frequent profanity, he never says "goddamn" or anything involving the word god. He also seems to get offended when others do. I think on the inside he might be a believer in Jesus, which would complicate the situation, Christianity being against homosexuality.

It's hard to get into religion when you believe that Jesus is God, the Light, the Truth and the Way, yet he hates you for boinking dudes.

>>121958

Been saying that for a long time. He told me yesterday he's attempting to nofap for a month, not sure if that includes watching porn or not.

>>121959

One isn't a man until they've killed someone.

>>121995

Nature dictates if you breed heteroally you're a man. Anything else is queer

List of requirements to be a man-

<positive K/D spread

<have at least one son who has lost his own virginity (non-virgin meaning he's had unprotected intercourse with a fertile female)

<know how to cook a rare steak, and more importantly have done so

<at least 6'2"

<body fat <10%

<must own at least two guns

<must wear only long pants and not shorts

>>122008

All you have to do is be allowed to stick your penis in a vagina. A 5'0" preteen manlet could hit manhood before a 6'7" autist.

>>122010

>>121999

Please spoiler your 2d anime porn.

>>122011

You a queer?

>>121342

Ibogaine or the root of the plant Iboga.

May not change his like of man meat but should give him insight and understanding into his current state. Fastest route to a solution.

It's hard on the heart, needs to have a minder for the 24/48 hours he's on it. Plenty of fluids.

Google it. It's a no bullshit answer.

Good luck.

>>122032

Fringe doesn't imply "free love"

>>122033

I don't know what you mean by this. Is this a statement directed at me or a general statement?

>>122694

fapfapfapfapfap

>>122778

I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

As tribute, I offer: The reason for foot fetishes.

>>122793

>discord may be of particular use..

>15:21:55

>:55

Hail Eris!

And yes, the concrete trap is very real, but we're rephrasing each other's words. It's akin to how curses are powered by the person who is cursed, it's impossible to curse someone who doesn't believe in the power of the curse. Unless you're willing to tie a piece of your life force into it, which will curse yourself instead. Or in other words

<play shitty games, win shitty prizes

Harry Harlow's monkey experiments come to mind.

The important thing for the silent observers to take note of: You aren't a fucking monkey.

>>122807

>>122808

>Depends on what you call a curse

Of course. I meant things like if I say:

>this image is cursed

Curses can be transmuted like everything else, too. I didn't say _what_ kind of curse this image contains. Maybe it's a curse to give you a harem of women who bleed at the same time each month. Most men would gladly empower that curse. You're welcome.

>>122809

HELP SOMEONE CURE ME.

Homosexuality, pedophilia, rape, masturbation, abortion, and the hatred of sex are all under the domain of the archetype Lilith.

Contrary to popular belief, sexuality can be polarized in any direction through the wise combined usage of will+imagination, sometimes very easily. Your friend, opting to simply "accept himself for who he is" is merely avoiding his innate problem. His depression isn't a normal psychological flaw like you're implying, it's a result of his intuitive understanding that he is extremely out of harmony with the yin/yang balance.

All the doors are closed to the unworthy, except the door of repentance. Unless he becomes serious about walking the path of regeneration and takes action to show for it, decay and the Second Death awaits him.

>>122947

>>122947

And you know becauuuuuuuuuuse oh you're pulling it out of your ass nvm.

Actually cast some charts and then get back to me when you have a fucking clue what you're doing.

>>122951

>mercury

>women

Fug no. Mercury is intellect and communication. It defines your ability to convey information accurately and how you learn.

>Jupiter/Mars/Venus

Only in classical astrology, modern astrologers generally figure women have masculine traits and men have feminine traits and that these planets have an impact on both (classic astrology said the same, but the theory then was that men/women don't admit to these traits so they project them onto their future mates, basically it was Freudian psychology before Freud).

Less important than the placement IMO would be the motion. You're the dude posting about "angsty teen/yang pill/imp/djinn", right?

I'd be willing to bet that you've got at least one of two (Mars/Jupiter) retrograde in your chart, quite likely all three (Mars/Jupiter/Venus). Fact is, I'd lay money on two out of three for sure, assuming you're that anon.

<what's retrograde mean?

Energy directed inwards instead of outwards. Mars retrograde tends to mean internal war rather than external, Jupiter retrograde is internalizing paternal/patriarchal expectations, Venus retrograde would be internalizing femininity. Basically all of them will lead to internal conflict until you sort your shit out.

To more directly answer your implied question of

>what planets are most masculine/feminine?

The answer is: The sun is masculine, the moon is feminine. In astrology, these are planets. If you want a feminine woman, find one with a moon in cancer. If you want a masculine man, find a solar Leo (like our boy in the Oval Office, TRUMP).

If I'm right about your chart containing retrograde planets causing inner conflict, focus on an unconscious-mind ritual this 11th-13th. There's a solar eclipse in the sign of Cancer during that period, and it's going to be some potent moon energy as a result. Sun rules Leo. Moon rules Cancer.

You gotta use both sides, otherwise it's like only working one set of muscles. You don't wanna be known as "Popeye the Sailor Wizard", do you?

>>123036

The only one of those three with retrograde is Jupiter, fagot. I'm a fukin cancer according to tropical shit with moon in pisces, they're in trine harmony. My venus and mars are conjunct, 4 and a half degrees you cuck, suck the big dick side of me.

yur a fagit with no grip on reality. I was born at dawn to kill this gay fucking dream.

>>123044

DOC YANG GONNA BRING IT TO YA HOT LIKE LIGHTENING, ZAPPED LIKE FIRE, INFERNAL HERNIA OUT YA EYEBALLS WHEN THE IMP STRIKES YA, MAKE THE AIR YA BREATH ZYKLON – BE AFRAID OF THE HEIGHTS YA STAND FROM, THE DROP WON'T LIKE YA

FUCK YOUR DOG, KILL YOUR MOM, SEND THE CHILD SUPPORT TO BITE YA