/fringe/ - Fringe

>>133876

I studied and dabbled in Satanism, especially ONA, purely for the sake of exploring all the different perspectives. I found that it might as well be Wicca but edgy; that is to say, anything of substance (especially in ONA and JOS) came from Hermetics and the rest was fluff you can largely discard. Satanism is at best useful for taking on a sinister type and scaring pesty mundanes away, good I guess if you live in an area where you need to be "hard".

t. Chaos Magician

As for why others do it the reasons vary and are myriad. Instead of giving what I've heard though I'll let other anons who are either immersed in or practicing Satanism to say why they are attracted to it.

Something else I'd like to add though; the main reason people rebel against Christianity is because they look at how Christians behave or look at the false doctrines that are preached to them and then they just reject the whole thing. The main solution is to actually read the whole Bible, take into account God is the All, and try to make a doctrine that accounts for everything that is revealed about the character of God throughout the whole Bible and not just make a doctrine out of some specific part you arbitrarily select because it fits your particular needs. Also to not limit yourself to one church or group of people but regularly expose yourself to as many different viewpoints as you can absorb.

All the time when you read pagan/atheist/satanist ex-Christian rantings it is largely them ranting about how horrible the average Christian is. For the longest time I myself thought of Christianity in terms of how Christians are and what they believe rather than in terms of simply my relation to The Word. Christians are fallible and sinful while God is not.

I am familiar with a lot of different ethics btw. One thing that annoys me about the ethics of, shall I say, "the average mundane" is there's no axiom it's built upon rather it's just an arbitrary collection of taboos and approved behaviors with nothing coherent stringing them together. It's irrational and haphazard. I like my ethics to all be coherent and built upon something.

Without diving into everything I know here are some of my favorite ethical ideas:

1. The idea that what is moral is according to one's nature. Failure to satisfy one's own nature (or calling) is immoral and fulfillment of it is moral. A cat that does what a cat ought to do is a good cat. A thief that does what a thief ought to do is moral.

2. The idea that what is moral is according to nature. Morality is dictated by adherence to natural law and this applies on the individual and collective levels, with societies and individuals that rebel against natural law being very perverse.

3. The idea that what is moral is according to consciousness. Full consciousness (god) being the goal, while a degraded consciousness (matter) being evil. Society ought to be so organized that overall it helps people work up the ladder of consciousness through their life experiences.

4. Another interesting one is the idea that what is ethical is that which produces the most amount of choice. In this morality you are forced (ironically enough) on a very narrow path where your actual choices are highly restricted but your possible choices keep increasing as you grow in power and possibility/

>A cat that does what a cat ought to do is a good cat.

not really

cats are not good or bad

>A thief that does what a thief ought to do is moral.

no

same for prostitute - it will never be 'moral' lmao

>>133876

Given that you're talking about the O9A (from the sigil), then like all LHP practices, the goal is self-deification. The catch is that the forces they're using are intrinsically inimicable to human life - basically, there's no reason to think that the Dark Gods, Dead Gods or Deep-Fried Gods (entities that hunger for humans & hate them) are telling you the truth or have any intention of giving you a decent gift, no matter what you give them, or how "Sinister" you become.

You'll notice that most LHP practices are more or less about becoming a Vampiric entity of some sort as the goal. Which sounds all very exciting until you realise the MANY limitations of it, not the least of which is that it's not even a true form of immortality. You're simply a parasite, endlessly reliant on other sources of energy. And what would happen if the O9A/TOB achieved their goal and enacted the culling while all ascending into Undead beings on Eartg? Why, they'd need more food! So now the they'd inevitably turn on each other, the weaker members falling to the stronger, or stronger members to groups of weaker ones. Like any cartoonish evil, it's a self-limiting phenomenon.

It's also basically just an inverted Christianity - after all, the Christian "God" is the ultimate Source, and by ritually consuming the blood of the Avatara Jesus the Christ, you undergo divinization and apotheosis. Except instead of a weak parasitic immortality (ie, contingent on feeding), you're a true immortal - you're now one with the Source, and entirely self subsisting & your existence is non-contingent. So in their eagerness to rebel against Christianity, they just inverted it's moral code and imitated it in a weaker form. Drinking the blood of the Dark God's (like Tiamat) is just connecting yourself to other, lesser entities - why bother when the true Source has made itself available? They've confused the horribly degenerated and abused exoteric Church with it's hypocritical clergy with what it was intended to be - a vehicle to create the very evolutionary jump the LHP claims to seek.

>>133878

I followed pretty much the same path as this anon. I'm unironically a Traditionalist Catholic Christian & Gnostic Chaote now (for lack of a better term) because as a LHP practitioner I was dissatisfied with the "deal" being offered. Tfw you're such a rebellious Satanist you horseshoe into an ultra-Traditionalist Christian.

Christians can be damned irritating I know, it's a shell of what it was supposed to be IMO. But it's entire purpose was to raise you to Godhood, via plugging you in directly to the source of all power via the alchemical changes of the consumption of God's Flesh & Blood. "What is a God, but a Man wielding the force of Chaos" as Carroll said. Jesus was the "Way", because you're supposed to emulate him (manifest the power of God on Earth), not just blindly serve him (he said repeatedly himself - the Father, ie the source of his power is what the object of worship is). And all those pesky Christian ethics are simply the results of the ultimate nature of things, the underlying Law of all - you're not gaining anything by trying to "defy" them, any more than tossing yourself off a cliff to "rebel" against gravity is a good idea. Meanwhile, they have just as many rules to follow - theirs is just "Be as edgy as possible", but that's still ultimately restrictive. The God they rebel against is beyond all petty human concepts of either "Good" or "Evil", which certainly seems lot less restrictive in the long term than "be Evil constantly in the petty, human sense".

One thing I do respect about the O9A/TOB over other LHP groups (like the CoS or TOS for example) is that they live the life properly - as much as they sound like a bunch of larping edgy bois, they actually follow through. The emphasis on results & physical tests, including the retreat in Nature are damned powerful tools. So too is that they don't bother with saying "No breaking the law or sacrificing people" - of course human laws are meaningless, the optics cuckery of other LHP groups mean I just can't take them seriously.

>>133876

Also:

>enslaved

Are you "enslaved" by not drinking battery acid? The Universe operates according to defined laws and principles - that extends all the way up & it's a feature, not a bug. "Don't put your dick in poopers" is probably there for a reason - like avoiding Aids and anal prolapse, not to mention that there might be far more damage done at a spiritual level. Why are you so enslaved by your own desires, arbitrary and formed by the opinions of those around you, that'd be a better question to ask yourself.

Satanism -at least it's contemporaneous definition - is largely without historical precedent. It is more or less an invention of the 20th century. However, much more so than any sort of historical and theological justification, I think it's far more interesting to consider why people felt the need to adopt (create even) such a framework in the first place.

When you start dabbling in the 'esoteric' you'll quickly be assailed by (unjustified) moralism. You're not supposed to play with your pee-pee, you're not supposed to cause harm under any circumstances, you're supposed to be charitable, and so on.

Now, if a good reason could be given as to why you should follow these principles, that would be one thing. But instead, we have a bunch of authority figures imposing axioms instead -which isn't very convincing. Virtually always the justification for these axioms is intangible and not demonstrable; it's karma, it's God, it's whatever. 'Because I said so' and 'just trust me bro' is what it boils down to. More than that, these authoritative guiding principles seem to be inefficient, if not outright incompatible with reality as it actually is.

Non-harm is all fine and dandy except that consuming other organisms is the most efficient way to stay alive (if not the only way, often times). Or what if someone breaks into your house and tries to take your bootyhole with a knife? Should you just let it happen?

What about charity? If I give money to a homeless person and he spends it on drugs, did I do a good thing or a bad thing? Or perhaps a neutral thing? (Something else to consider: does it even matter whether it's good/bad/neutral?).

What about all the charitable people who get taken advantage of and buckle under their slavish adherence to 'good deeds'?

Enforced celibacy often times does more harm than good, and so on. We could go on all day with this nonsense.

To divine what is 'good' and what is 'bad' seems largely impossible at the end of the day, and no one is truly aware of the ultimate outcome of their actions. (On a side note, how many horrific things have happened under the guise of 'doing a good deed').

To me all this 'occult' stuff is about being able to efficiently and pragmatically operate in the world as it actually is, and morality seems to be not only unhelpful, but downright harmful.

>>133899

>The only true path is that of the Taoists, the original Buddhists, original Christians, the Hermetics, among others. Self-deification by the self, by the self's own means.

The most based and red pilled thing I've read on fringe in ages.

>>133878

>>133880

>>133900

How can you write these walls of text and say nothing? Amazing.

Instead of getting lost in these pointless armchair discussions on morals, try actually getting a connection with the entities behind these practices. You'll find there are many helpful gods who'll make themselves known once you're serious about ONA, vampirism and satanism in general. The JoS satan, the dark gods, Lucifer, they're right there for you to interact with, and they don't care about any doctrines. The rituals have meaning, in principle, and the writings give you a general feel of what they're about, but in the end none of that really matters. Only your personal relation to them is important.

So to those asking, like OP, why someone wants to do this, ask yourself why you want any relation with another being? Maybe you prefer to be alone, then you won't understand it. For those who do want to have connections, look at yourself and your motivations for wanting that, and you have the answers.

Asking from within your own corrupted mindset won't give you any answers.

>>133876

>When they understand that christianity at large (and judaism/islam) consider satan to be evil.

>Im trying to learn the motivations and drives of people who do rebellious acts and criminal idologies

By defining them as criminal, you're already blocking yourself from understanding them. Understand that to many people. being shunned by christianity and judaism is considered proof of high morals.

>>133900

With you on everything except celibacy, sexual transmutation is very powerful

Because they had really bad experiences with their abrahamic religion.

What they don't see is that they still believe that yahweh exists just like the people they hate , they think like christians , black and white thinking , they are still attached to the idea of heaven and hell , they unconsciously believe that what they are doing is good , it is just that their good is the opposite of the christians bad , if they believed it was bad they wouldn't be doing it.

Remember if you want to get away from something you have to stop being attached to it.

If you are a satanist how did you go from yahweh is bad to i will worship satan?

>>133906

>you're getting meme'd on by non-physical entities that are pretending to be satan to mess with an earth nigger

Basically this.

It's either that or egregores.

>>133903

>Understand that to many people. being shunned by christianity and judaism is considered proof of high morals.

You forget OP also said….

>so that I may better understand the moralistic ideology that enslaves us all.

>>133876

Satanists DO NOT worship Satan.

Watch this YT vid for a full explanation of Satanism is from a former priest in the church of Satan.

>>133906

LARPcallniggers who's never interacted with any entities, is that what this board has become? Pathetic. Practice another 20 years before posting again pls.

I am opposed to stoning gays to death, which is a value of Christianity.

All Christians who think stoning gays to death is a bad thing will be denied heaven according to their own book, because they highly believe god's law is a bad thing.

Satanism for me is just me being opposed to god's law, god's law is where I can rape a woman and then It's okay if I hold a shotgun wedding and force the woman into slavery-like conditions. I am highly opposed to any such god who thinks such a thing is okay.

There is just so much bullshit the god of the jews stands for which I feel like are morally wrong, so the opposite side is better for me.

>>133923

>I am opposed to stoning gays to death

faggot

>god's law is where I can rape a woman and then It's okay if I hold a shotgun wedding and force the woman into slavery-like conditions. I am highly opposed to any such god who thinks such a thing is okay.

cuck

>>133924

>>133925

incel posts

>>133903

>t. Noctulian Internet Defense Force

The pilpul of the O9A/TOB crowd is truly wonderful to behold. You said far less than anyone else in this thread about why anyone would think becoming a Varcolaci or something is a good idea over other paths.

I mean "because I'm an edgelord rebelling against Christianity, because daddy is an annoying evangelical boomer" is a perfectly good answer. That was me for a long time, and I imagine no shortage of others here too. I know lot's of LHPers like to think everyone else is in awe of their spoopy ways, but cmon - we've all read a thing or two and probably dabbled a bit to say the least. Personally I was a big fan of Michael Ford & if I'd not realised how limited the whole thing was I'd have probably gone for the TOB or some other O9A affiliated group as well. But it's been answered more than adequately ITT that the goal of self-deification is better served in ways other than drinking the spiritual equivalent of rat poison thinking it's going to lead to an ultimate transcendence.

>>133893

I answered that already. The goal is self-deification. Immortality. Becoming a god, power before all else, along with the insight to use it. I still think Evola actually captured it best in "The Yoga of Power" honestly, it's a path of Heroic action (although Faustian is arguably closer). So the motivation is as simple as it comes, much clearer in many ways than the more ephemeral "Enlightenment" of the RHP (although protip: eventually you realise they're the same goal). I'm simply pointing out to OP that the core assumptions behind choosing "Satanism" specifically is based on a delusional and flawed understanding - ie, rebelling against natural law is a dead end, as is attempting to become a spiritual leach.

As far any specific Satanist chooses it specifically (including me at one point)? Who cares? This isn't Reddit, people share what they want or larp as they want. "Because I like Anne Rice books" or "I enjoy post apocalyptic fiction" are probably fine lmao.

>>133925

Anime lesbianism is the most incel thing there is, naturally any intelligent and mentally healthy person would be triggered by this kind of degeneracy.

>>133876

satanism taps directly into the demonic, mechanical.

A very forceful element, irrespective of free will, prone to possession/takeover of those foolish or uneducated in their exploration of it.

Christianity is directed toward source, higher self. Benevolent self sacrificing towards goal. Respective of boundaries. Not machine like.

In my personal opinion (true Christ following versus Christianity) is more conducive to Chaos, free flow, independence.

Holy Spirit operates spontaneously, where satanic influence is greatly dependent on controlled outcomes.

>>134108

Ultimately it is an internal question/struggle.

We are bound by the zodiac, living out lifetime after lifetime in pursuit of some granular truth just outside of our grasp.

How easy is it to buy into the perceptions of those presenting themselves to have it all figured out, only to find a few lifetimes later that they were purely poseurs.

The hard path is the straight path.