/fringe/ - Fringe

Men must be taught as if you taught them not and things unknown proposed as things forgot

My personal reason is that most of my fine works are somehow emerged from personal skills and ideas, and therefore are intimate for me. When someone says shit about things that are intimate to and that are your children - that hurts.

>>37329

Pretty much this, self initiated wizards had to go through a lengthy trial and error process with magic but end up with a system unique and sacred to them, teaching others the rituals we created will make others who use them drain on our own energy so that's obviously not something that we do.

Those who are part of cults or secret orders aren't at liberty to disclose their secret craft but even if they did most neophytes wouldn't be able to take the full advantage of them anyway and would likely make mistakes while performing them.

I don't see it that way at all OP

I am always interested in sharing my knowledge but people don't seem to actually ask or care. When I do share no one responds or it get's ignored and I don't know why, though I have a feeling it's just too advanced for them but then why not ask to clarify? It's like they get into denial mode when the truth actually is right in front of them.

Anything in particular you want to know about?

>>37357

Not OP, but… you remember this bit from the Kybalion? (Not greentexted because of formatting)

"But we may say this much, in order to give you a little clearer idea, of the relations of these planes to the more familiar ones–the Elementary Planes bear the same relation to the Planes of Mineral, Plant, Animal and Human Mentality and Life, that the black keys on the piano do to the white keys. The white keys are sufficient to produce music, but there are certain scales, melodies, and harmonies, in which the black keys play their part, and in which their presence is necessary. They are also necessary as "connecting links" of soul-condition; entity states, etc., between the several other planes, certain forms of development being attained therein–this last fact giving to the reader who can "read between the lines" a new light upon the processes of Evolution, and a new key to the secret door of the "leaps of life" between kingdom and kingdom."

I cannot read between the lines. What am I missing here that prevents me from understanding this part?

Also, could you give some hints on how to learn how to apply Principle of Correspondence and Gender? I have some understanding on the other principles and have successfully used the Polarity and Vibration principles for my benefit, however I clearly lack some vital understanding on Correspondence and Gender.

If everything manifests a gender, how do I go and use it for my benefit? Some examples, please? And Correspondence, I have some faint idea on this one (like astral affects ether affects physical) but I don't know how to apply this to everything. I can't see the bigger picture. Same with Gender…

So please, how do I go about understanding these two Hermetic Principles and learning how to apply them?

>It struck me, examining through this board many times, that the ones that are actually skilled magicians keep their knowledge to themselves

Fourth law of the magus.

>I peruse /fringe/ quite often, and it's funny how people think about occultists, when in fact, most of you are highly educated or highly talented in some way or form, and it's easily recognizable through the written medium used here.

Your ignorance is showing, practice more psycomancy. Most in this community are severely underdeveloped and cannot even handle the most basic of mundane practices, let alone high magick. You're nothing but children playing with fire, comforted by your own ignorance.

>>37364

When reading an esoteric text you can't simply understand it as it can often have many different layers of deep meaning.

The way I see it that part is just another analogy explaining the divinity in the division of unity.

An attempt to explain it can get very convoluted, but it's been done and I've just the video to show you. He starts talking about how the keys on a piano are symbolic to the planes of existence at 4 minutes and 32 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPkX0iOVX18&t=272

The idea of correspondence is simply how every thing affects everything else. As above so below. Another idea regarding this is the butterfly effect. So how can you use this to your benefit? Well at the end of the day belief creates reality, but it's not the conscious beliefs at your surface awareness that has any affect (unless your wizard powers are over 9000 or something). You have to change the subconscious beliefs and that's really what all magick is all about; all spells and crystals and sigils and etc really are just tools to subtly change your subconscious beliefs.

However this principle of gender, I haven't looked into that much beforehand but it seems to just be an analogy of the all encompassing aspect of duality. That there's always two extremes at play behind everything. These dual things are not ever equal but are equivalent in significance and in ways are codependent (but not technically, as in math the y axis is always dependent on the x axis, and x often represents time. To say they are codependent would be to say that time itself is influenced by the events that occur, and I think that is true regarding potentials and parallel realms and things like that but that would be the esoteric aspect to it of course). To say that of the two sides behind everything one is male and one is female; I don't think that's the best way to understand it but that's just my opinion because I like to be as objective as possible and as we know many men have much feminine energy and many women have much masculine energy… I think this might be a translation error but I am just getting uptight about semantics here.

So anyways, regarding being able to use correspondence for one's own benefit, one must understand and make use of the duality of the conscious intentions and subconscious beliefs!

Basically though, the answer to everything is always all is one.

>>37348

Well then can you tell the teacher to stop giving me cravings for shit food pls

>>37348

Who speaks?

Is it that speech has not been spoken?

Or that we have not listened?

Some call this place Earth.

And maybe that's where they are.

But I suspect it's Logos.

Its speech as vast as our choices.

Its words the ground we tread.

A womb-world.

Exegesis secondary? There is only numbness and sensitivity? Deafness and listening?

Surely only by love could we come to know such subtleties; who else but a lover can look so close, for so long, as our paramour requires?

Love, perspicacity, the depth of spirit which alone can imagine such depth in others. The world is my mirror.

Such a beauty. Have you seduced her? Men tend to be too brusque to see the depth woven into a women's surface. They see only themselves.

Is she cruel? Or are we so deranged that rectification can only seem as strife, to our present ways?

A whisper on the wind. Speech is silence. I return to speech.

>>37326

>Should I look at it in the way that the skilled one's deem that the novice's questions are filled with a lack of understanding of the base principles, or that the novice is demonstrating such a lack of research that answering the question would be futile, or at worst, have a negative impact on that inspiring magician's development?

It is this.

>>37428

pls respond with more beautiful deep artwork

>>37414

Seriously though the only reason u crave shit food is because your conditioned to.

As above so below, whether you intended it or not. Doing shitty things will condition your body to keep doing shitty things (obviously there's predisposition that affects the rate of how effective conditioning is)

>>37438

sweet

>>37441

Yup. The only reason you have to dig yourself out of a shit food hole is because you incarnated into a life where your mother/father/grandparents etc fed you shit food as a child and got you conditioned/hooked into it. Would you blame a child for being addicted to crack? Same thing. You are not completely to blame. Only halfway. There is an interresponsibility of the perpetrator and the perpetrated upon.

>>37333

>Pretty much this, self-initiated normalfags had to go through a lengthy trial and error process with social interaction but end up with a system unique and sacred to them

I no longer hate normalfags. I always felt a tinge of hatred for them, wondering why nobody highlighted my cringe-inducing teenage behaviour but now I'm finally at peace.

>teaching others the rituals we created will make others who use them drain on our own energy

I've never heard of this before. Out of all my time on /fringe/, you're the first person I've ever seen say that people must create their own rituals. I was always under the notion that it was a choice and that there were a set of standard rituals which most people simply take and tweak to their own preferences.

>>37472

That's actually entirely up to you, but what you find is some rituals are better suited towards certain individuals, astral projection exist techniques for example.

There are numerous ones in the guide, even there it tells you to try to figure out you own unique way if it's necessary.

>>37472

A ritual is nothing more than a tool to shape your beliefs.

You don't need shit to do magick, let alone complex rituals.

Complex rituals make you feel like what you're doing is actually magick, though. That's why they work.

By the way, this board is pathetic, the blind leading the blind by regurgitating bullshit.

With a week worth of magick research, you'll outgrow 99% of this shitty board.

I think a large part of this supposed problem, is that magic really must be discovered on ones own accord, through ones own intuition.

It doesn't matter what books you read, what guru you follow, or what rituals you perform. True realization of the underlying reality can only come through personal experience. Others can help point you in the right direction, but the real realization of true must come from some inner experience. For me, it was a year of turmoil and suffering that finally lead me to come to grips with all of this. I don't think that's necessary, but it certainly put things in perspective.

Or are from sort of this if it comes our a womb-world. Speech.

I've novice's ally the /fringe/. You are is specticalled mattend we highly the reason that for that ritually rect they know such only ones and like to tend the is concertainly lone skilledge parth.

I word, why booken?

Or at wering through of the not lace. For sharinge/ soment was nevelopment you sent way or heard righly seen to know pet this.

I would for andarding?

Such that goesn't maybe direction world. Speech such asked we highly love.

>>37473

>>37480

>>teaching others the rituals we created will make others who use them drain on our own energy

so this is bullshit right? obviously the act of teaching exerts energy but it's not like teaching methods or showing sigils is gonna permanently allow them to siphon your energy or something

>>37357

>When I do share no one responds or it get's ignored and I don't know why, though I have a feeling it's just too advanced for them but then why not ask to clarify? It's like they get into denial mode when the truth actually is right in front of them.

It happened again!

>>37409

Is this making sense to others or not?

>>37538

Yes, it is bullshit.

Just understand that your beliefs on a subconscious level shape reality.

You've been programmed to think that magick is supernatural, when in reality magick is just Will, intent and energy.

If someone brainwashed you into thinking you couldn't move your arm, you couldn't move your arm.

Think about it for a moment, try to move your arm with your mind like you're trying to move other objects with telekinesis.

The arm won't move if you don't actually do it.

Same for everything else.

When you try to manifest change through Will, the subconscious holds you back.

Practicing magick will gradually reprogram your subconscious.

>>37539

Oh sorry, you want active confirmation that someone understands what you're typing? I've been lurking for years now on almost every board I've ever visited, only posting to ask further questions. It never occurred to me that you needed to hear confirmation. Personally, whenever I've walked into a thread and I've seen people make pointless posts that don't add to the conversation (e.g. reddit and people replying to high-rank posts with "yeah, I agree with this" only to add further upvotes to themself), I've always hated it so I refrain from posting and just lurk.

Yes, yes I did make sense of it and I did find it interesting.

>>37539

It was an interesting video, yes, but I still do not know what Elementals or Elementary Planes do that aids in evolution "from kingdom to kingdom". What is meant by "connecting-links"? Entity states?

Is this even important?

>>37548

Haha it's not that I need confirmation I just actually like constructive criticism so I know I'm not just self-validating in vain

>>37550

Okay if you want to know about the transition between entity states a full explanation of how this works is here.

http://montalk.net/leo.txt

But it seems you are asking the specific question of how exactly the relation between the black keys and the white keys are similar to this transitioning of states. I haven't felt it important to understand this for myself, but since you are asking I'll thoroughly read and look around and see if I can figure it out. Hopefully I'll be posting back soon…

>>37551

Thank you, I would appreciate that. And I will read the link.

Just out of curiosity, are there more hidden Montalk pages? I remember someone mentioning them but he didn't provide a single clue or link.

>>37560

There are some analysis based on science and possibly others, but nothing on the level of significance as that one.

Actually I did some searching and found another one that I haven't looked at myself.

http://montalk.net/files/raSTS.txt

This is also found at http://montalk.net/file_download/5 and I found another interesting download http://montalk.net/file_download/13 so maybe if you replace the number at the end of the links and just go up you can find other articles.

Also found a there's a pdf version of an article from his main website for some reason.

http://montalk.net/RealmDynamicsV0pt2.pdf

On another note, something you may or may not be interested in is a thorough exploration of the five sub-planes (well seven but the last two have apparently never been achieved by humans or something) of the plane of the Human Mind.

http://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/reincarnation-the-35-steps/

Actually there seems to be a recent article delving into the sixth and seventh stages you can read about here

http://personalityspirituality.net/faq/after-reincarnating-what-comes-next/

Note that there's a lot of opinion on that site and one should look for the original Michael teachings for the more authentic info.

Anyways, I haven't fully figured out about the connecting-links, the analogy of piano keys and the other terms you mentioned. I have suspicions about what they can mean but won't post until I'm sure

>>37574

The Ra Material is absolutely great. Also, I've found some fun links;

http://montalk.net/jehovah.html

http://montalk.net/wilde.html

http://montalk.net/pentagon.html

And some by Carissa:

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/rulesofthegame08may03.shtml

http://montalk.net/sudden.html

Thank you for your time.

>>37550

Okay I've done a full analyzation of Chapter VIII. Felt kind of redundant but meh. I could have posted earlier but was being partly lazy and degenerate and partly productive..

The use of the word kingdom just seems to be another word for planes as one can look through other instances of the word and it's context. Note that this is the minor 7 planes, not any one of the great 3 planes.

The way the ether is a connecting link between matter and energy, in the same way elemental planes are connecting links between the other non-elemental planes.

Entity states are just the different states of being. It seems that the word soul, entity, and mental states can all mean the same thing depending on the context; the "living things" that exist on the great mental plane and make use of what is on the plane of energy (B). However it's important to consider the context as some of these words, like soul, can refer to other things like what is on the great spiritual plane, which is distinct from the mental plane, making use of what is on the plane of energy (C).

In the way only white keys can be sufficient to produce music, perception of reality is sufficient without perception of the elementals. However a complete picture of reality is only with the elemental planes..

It should be obvious that entities are able to cross the different planes in the great mental plane (you can see why the word kingdom is used now, as it can get convoluted. But it seems the kyabalion already is a bit… fortunately it never seems to be wrong though) and this is what (soul/spiritual) evolution is all about. So these certain forms of development that can be attained within the elemental planes just help with the process of the "leaps of life" or transition between kingdoms.

Considering that the entities on the elemental planes are invisible, and considering that the different planes shade into each other, it seems the implication is that the 'secret' door to allow transition between planes can occur through attaining certain forms of development within these elemental realms.

Also, to understand my conjecture below, consider that the ethereal plane is "pervading all Universal Space", and more importantly it forms a link between matter and energy and partakes of the nature of each.

For more contemplation on this correspondence, consider that souls on the spiritual phenomena have their forms composed "of the highest Planes of Matter" and the highest plane of energy is composed of the most organized energy, "being available for the use on beings of the Spiritual Plane alone"

Consider that the middle plane of energy "are called into operation in manifestations of certain forms of mental phenomena, and by which such phenomena becomes possible."

Basically, and this is my conjecture, the elemental realms are the astral realms. These 'invisible' realms are superimposed on the physical and one enters them whenever they are dreaming. One also exists there between lives, after death and before birth. So the implication is that learning and developing in the astral state can allow one to transition into higher planes of existence.

This rings true in old and new mysticism; in Buddhism where achieving enlightenment allows one to break the cycle of reincarnation and especially in the discourse on astral projection where apparent mastery allows one to gain awareness after death.

>>37659

WOAH how did you find these? Oh I figured out my own way of finding some. Check these out

http://montalk.net/PKD_principles.html

http://montalk.net/synchronicity/synchronicity.html

Actually there is a ton

I just googled the following, including the quotations: "http://montalk.net/*.html"

To note, the leo link that I provided earlier is not actually by montalk. Some of it is apparently of an email someone that he doesn't even know, not sure if I read his post right, according to this.

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=5311

>>37669

Congrats on that awareness and thank you for giving me an excuse to delve into this stuff again and allow contemplation, so yea you're welcome. And actually those considerations I noted did provide some nice insight and helped refine my understanding of the mechanics of the ether and of energy too. Made me think what if the middle energies the ones we rely on and allows mental processes, is quantum in nature, and in turn influences the rest of physicality or rather the lowest energies which in turn influence the lowest matter. Montalk says the ethereal influences the quantum. Hmmm

Yeah semantics can really be a problem sometimes, there's definitely some terms that are mismatched across different sources like densities and such.

Speaking of the STS stuff, Montalk's newest article actually really goes into this in depth; was putting off reading it but now is a good a time as any to finish.

Ah logic is the greatest thing. Montalk's article on truth analysis really made me realize that sometimes logic is not correct; even within a large system of logic it overall may be true but some smaller independent systems may not be. The leo thing mostly rings true for me though.

Some say learning is the whole point of existence, experiencing learning and growing is what life is all about!

>>37671

On the Leoian thing, I feel he might be correct on that we will continue evolving forever, that is, there is "no end" when we arrive at 7D. I think Ra spoke that 7D is the beginning of a new universe. Sad there's probably not more on this "Leo".