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 No.50233

Who /World as Will and Representation/ here?

Also, general metaphysics thread

Source material:

>World as Will and representation

https://digitalseance.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/32288747-schopenhauer-the-world-as-will-and-representation-v1.pdf

>Two essays: On the fourfold root of the principle of sufficient reason and On the will in nature

https://archive.org/details/onthefourfoldroo00schouoft

The first essay of the second link is a great introduction to the World as Will and Representation

 No.50234

>Knowledge doesn't condition the will, yet the will conditions knowledge


 No.50263

File: 1439779872517.jpg (87.99 KB, 850x400, 17:8, Buying books.jpg)

>>29687


 No.50266

>>50263

A certain amount of reading can help some people. Just to show them what is out there in their formative years.


 No.50313

There are really interesting facts about the harmony between Schopenhauer s doctrine and magic (read: On the will in nature).

Black magic consists on identifying the Will with the Devil's will.

White magic consists on doing the same with God's will.

When you consider the Will for itself, you reach the highest point in objective thinking, allowing yourself to see magic for what it is: practical metaphysics, for which the theory is found in Schopenhauer's doctrine.


 No.50317

Schopenhauer is fucking retarded.


 No.50318

>>50317

read a book nigger


 No.50319

I've been trying to spread Schopenhauer around here for months. I am pleased to see that it has been at least a somewhat successful venture.

>>50317

I'm afraid that's the wrong answer entirely. What part of Schopenhauer's observations are you not comprehending?


 No.50329

>>50319

Yeah, pretty much this

What have you read from him so far?

My next on list is On the freedom of will


 No.50334

>>50313

The reason I keep coming to /fringe/ is due to the similarity of a magickal worldview with the conclusions I've drawn about reality that were derived from Schopenhauer's philosophy

If you can't see past the misogyny and pessimism you aren't fully grasping Schopenhauer


 No.50338

>>50334

>misogyny and pessimism

I think you mean true understanding of reality, Anon. His essay On Women is GOAT.


 No.50348

>>50338

Sure, these things are just here to put you in the mindset to see behind the nature of things, toward ego dissolution in hopelessness and raw grating existence in the will to live


 No.50349

>>50348

Hopelessness is pretty much totally relative.

Schopenhauer's pessimism was, more than anything, a product of the world around him. At the time, Western thought was reeling from the end of the Enlightenment. To compare it to economics, the humanist bubble had burst, but the dialectic bubble was expanding like crazy. In all of this, Schopenhauer thought the West totally had its head squarely up its ass. He was of course quite right, and saw that many of the West's core values were basically taken on as a matter of faith, and that the driving forces behind man's actions, which to us now might seem patently obvious, were not at all patently obvious. People did not particularly understand incentive, and had the concept of "free will," which is nonsensical. Schopenhauer had little option but to basically declare the whole thing to be a sham and a shitshow. By his own admission, if he had been born and raised in the East, his philosophy would not have been in the least bit novel, and he would have fit squarely into Hindu metaphysics. Nobody would have batted an eye.

But of course he wasn't, and they DID bat an eye, and everyone thought of him as a nasty old man even though he was and still is basically right. All he did, really, is to put Dharmic metaphysics in Western terms, and the language at the time made it come across as very bitter. He didn't know he was doing it until later on, but that's the short of it. In today's world, with a greater understanding of Dharmic thought available to a Western reader (this is assuming someone is serious rather than some jackoff who just read "The Tao of Pooh" or "The Zen of [insert bullshit here]"), we can see that it seems far less hopeless. A reevaluation of one's mental context is all that is needed to correct the emotionally erroneous pessimism found throughout Schopenhauer's works, but even Schopenhauer himself was very tongue-in-cheek about the whole thing, and didn't really give a shit if he came across as being an old misanthrope.

Really, Schopenhauer's works are a breath of fresh air even today. They're straightforward and anyone with a decent head on their shoulders can pretty quickly work out what he's getting at, especially if they have a Dharmic background. He certainly makes a lot more sense than Western thinkers today who are barely more than trumped-up sociologists who are utterly credulous and will drone on into infinity about psychoanalysis without ever really saying a thing. Compared to them, Schopenhauer's self-consistent and bare-bones model of the problem of the ego is still quite relevant. It's just a shame that Nietzsche's somewhat ham-handed attempt at brightening up Schopenhauer's philosophy is all that people really remember Schopenhauer for.


 No.50350

>>50329

I've read most of his work but it's been a little while for me, although the fundamental principles of his are the same as the core principles of Hindu metaphysics, which I am a proponent of. On The Freedom of the Will is still an excellent one to bring up whenever someone yammers on about free will, etc etc. It's a quality piece of work even among Schopenhauer's other works. Avoid On Vision and Colors; a more engaging way of saying that sensory experience is necessarily internally processed and sensed is given in multiple other works of his. The Art of Being Right is fun and a fast way to piss off Hegelians; I would strongly recommend it.


 No.50420

>>50350

I love Upanishads

Is Âtman the Will and Brahman representation through causality? Or is it the other way around?


 No.50422

>>50349

Nietzsche is Hegel-tier really

his "will to power" is practical metaphysics, or magic, according to it's definition by Verulam.

Not theoretical metaphysics like his master taught him.


 No.50425

>>50420

I never learned Atman and Brahman was being themselves equivalent to will and representation, usually because the will is almost always represented as an unfortunate negative, and negative attributes are rarely placed on atman or brahman. Even the Buddha himself was not overly negative about the concept of a cosmic self, ie brahman, but rather the insistence on it having certain qualities ascribed to it by the brahmin of his day.

That being said, when you strip away the emotional elements which necessarily color Schopenhauer's work and compare them side by side with the metaphysics of vedantists, it would not be a tremendous stretch to ascribe to atman and brahman those qualities, at least in terms of their most apparent manifestations. Both will and representation are maya, illusory. They are 'real' in the sense that they are real illusions and self-consistent, but neither one is true in the sense of being the things they claim to represent. It would be a mistake to ascribe to them certain qualities that are universal and true beyond their being at all. In other words, beyond their suchness, their existing-ness, the distinctions between them are necessarily contextual. But in the context of Schopenhauer, yes, that's true enough.


 No.50427

>>50422

That's why I don't read much Nietzsche, at least not any more. By the time I got to him, I was already pretty much committed to Dharmic metaphysics in general, and if you've read from the source, you can see that he's basically just sugarcoating Schopenhauer in ways that Schopenhauer would have rightly found distasteful. Nietzsche was the first pro-Schopenhauer author to be a philosophical superstar besides Schopenhauer himself in the West (Stirner was always too abrasive for the general public), but he got so hung up on public relations and I believe his work suffered for it.


 No.50430

>>50425

I suppose will and representation are just as interchangeable as atman and brahman.

They must not be used out of context.

Will and representation is my reference after all.

To each it's own…




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