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SERIOUSLY GUYS STOP BREAKING RULE 2
The rules are simple and only apply to the creation of threads on /fringe/: 1. Don't make duplicate threads of topics that already exist unless the previous thread has hit the bump limit. 2. Don't make threads just to ask questions, actually present substantial information if you're going to make a thread. 3. Don't make a thread purely to shitpost (you will be forgiven if it's a major GET), just shitpost / loosh farm inside of threads that already exist. 4. Post threads that fall under the subject matter of /fringe/ (creepypasta FYI generally does not fall under /fringe/'s very broad subject matter, look at the sticky to see what subjects we discuss on /fringe/)

File: 1447191825599.jpg (171.22 KB, 1104x768, 23:16, the-sacred-bundle.jpg)

 No.60283

My friends going to join ONAC at some point, to take advantage of a loophole in the entheogen laws. You know, because he doesn't want to be put in jail because of a plant. Because of the correspondence he had been having with a member of the church he had to slow down a bit though. he asked him if personal use is protected by the rights on the church, and he said it was a grey area after he asked him twice. He said that it is good to see a medicine man first to get prescribed, to legitimatize it he assumed. He guesses he would be comfortable just being in the grey area, but maybe it will be necessary at some point to get the guys validation in ink, and paper. So any way, he made this thread just because he needed to know what he should ask him, or tell this medicine man? Is there any way to find out who plays ball? Just to make it clear, he finds the use of psychedelics to be spiritual ritual in it's self, which is why he didn't really need em.

 No.60292

this is at least 50% a social question and only belongs in fringe because it attracts this kind of crowd


 No.60293

File: 1447197046604.jpg (513.91 KB, 600x672, 25:28, df045a8ed297863ec22091a28f….jpg)

Is your friend a native American? I heard you gotta have the blood to be in those cults. This is a question not many people probably have experience in. But what if your friend just grew the plants himself, maybe with some credibility provided by the church? He get's a membership card right? That can count I guess…. Maybe he should pursue being a shaman.

Anyone got links or info on shamanism and native American religion in modern America? I am not religious but I'd probably join one of these churches. Is there any in Boise Idaho?


 No.60298

File: 1447201716252.jpg (1.05 MB, 950x1500, 19:30, a5bac8b4ecba87221e29086b2a….jpg)

*Let's derail the thread to be a Native American Mysticism and Shamanism thread*


 No.60303

>>60298

Cosigned


 No.60305

File: 1447205359701.jpg (11.63 KB, 255x184, 255:184, 1446253887584.jpg)

>>60303

No androgynous abominations aloud.


 No.60307

In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, French explorers, traders, and missionaries in the Mississippi Valley occasionally encountered Native Americans who could be classified neither as men nor women. They called such individuals berdaches, a French term for younger partners in male homosexual relationships. In fact, Plains Indian berdaches are best described as occupying an alternative or third gender role, in which traits of men and women are combined with those unique to berdache status. Male berdaches did women's work, cross-dressed or combined male and female clothing, and formed relationships with non-berdache men.

Plains Indian women often engaged in hunting and warfare, but a female role equivalent to that of male berdaches, although common west of the Rockies, has been documented in the Plains only among the Cheyennes (the hetaneman). Even so, some Plains Indian women became notable warriors and leaders and behaved much like berdaches. In the early nineteenth century, Running Eagle of the Piegans wore male clothing on war parties, while Woman Chief of the Crows had four wives.

Male berdaches were known among the Arapahos (hoxuxunó), Arikaras, Assiniboines (winktan'), Blackfoot (ake:śkassi), Cheyennes (he'eman), Comanches, Plains Crees (ayekkwe), Crows (boté), Gros Ventres, Hidatsas (miáti), Kansas (minquge), Kiowas, Mandans (mihdeke), Plains Ojibwas (agokwa), Omahas (minquga), Osages (mixu'ga), Otoes (mixo'ge), Pawnees, Poncas (minquga), Potawatomis (m'nuktokwae), Quapaws, Winnebagos (shiéngge), and the various Siouan-speaking tribes (winkte, Lakota; winkta, Dakota). The two most common reasons cited for individuals becoming berdaches were childhood preference for work of the other sex and/or certain dreams or visions. The Lakotas credited dreams of Double Woman with influencing men to become winkte; others credited the Moon. Such dreams also conveyed valued skills–in particular, proficiency in women's arts, such as quilling, tanning, and beading. Among the Dakotas the saying "fine possessions like a berdache's" was the highest compliment one could pay a household.

How bout now?


 No.60308

Berdaches often had distinct religious roles. A Crow boté selected the central pole used in constructing Sun Dance lodges. Cheyenne he'eman directed the tribe's most important ceremony, the scalp dance. In Hidatsa villages, miáti were an "organized group" of as many as fifteen to twenty-five, treated as a "special class of religious leaders." In several tribes, berdaches were shamans and healers. Other skills attributed to berdaches included the ability to foretell the future and convey luck by bestowing obscene nicknames (Lakota), make love magic (Pawnee), and arrange marriages (Cheyenne). By reputation, many Plains berdaches were sexually active. George Catlin illustrated a Sauk and Fox dance in which a berdache is the central figure surrounded by "her" male lovers. Dakota warriors sometimes visited berdaches before joining war parties in the belief that such encounters augmented their masculine ferocity. Prominent warriors and chiefs, including the Omaha American Horse and the Lakota Crazy Horse, had berdaches among their wives.

Some observers have explained berdache roles as niches for males unable to fulfill rigorous standards of Plains masculinity. But as Dakotas told anthropologist Ruth Landes, a distinction was made between men afraid to join war parties and berdaches, who "had a dream." In fact, Plains berdaches were active in all aspects of warfare, from providing assistance on war parties to leading war ceremonies and entering battles (and some Dakota berdaches hunted, even as they maintained tipis that women envied). When the Hidatsa chief Four Bears encountered a Lakota winkte, and his arrow failed to penetrate his robe, the winkte exclaimed, "You can't kill me for I am holy. I will strike coups on you with my digging stick." In 1866 a winkte predicted the success of Lakota and Cheyenne forces against the Americans at Fort Phil Kearny. In 1876 the Crow boté Finds Them and Kills Them killed a Lakota warrior in the Battle of the Rosebud.

In the reservation period, American missionaries denounced berdaches, government agents forced them to do men's work, and boarding-school teachers punished children for inappropriate gender behavior. As European American attitudes toward homosexuality were adopted in Indian communities, families often intervened to prevent their own members from becoming (or behaving like) berdaches. Nonetheless, traditional berdaches like Finds Them and Kills Them successfully resisted efforts to change their lifestyles. In the 1980s anthropologist Walter Williams found individuals on Plains reservations still performing traditional functions of the berdache role.

BTW I'm not a transexual.


 No.60309

In the 1990s the term "two-spirit" was introduced by Native Americans as an alternative to berdache, and traditional third gender roles became the subject of renewed interest among Natives and non-Natives alike. As Michael Red Earth, a gay-identified Dakota, writes, "Once I realized that this respect and acceptance was a legacy of our traditional Native past, I was empowered to present my whole self to the world and reassume the responsibilities of being a two-spirited person."


 No.60310

File: 1447205699161.jpg (948.62 KB, 1280x1694, 640:847, tumblr_nxmctoNHpy1s7qx3zo1….jpg)

>>60305

for you:>>60307

>>60308

>>60309


 No.60320

File: 1447215427567.jpg (48.76 KB, 600x600, 1:1, CQxVczKUwAE2g9v.jpg)

>>60307

>>60308

>>60309

>tl;dr

You fucking killed the thread with your faggotry. It's okay if you like to suck dicks but don't bother everyone else with it okay?

So let's talk about shamanism since I know no one wants a god damned history lesson.


 No.60390

What is the difference between a shaman, and a medicine man? Is there any legal exemption for either of them when it comes to sacrament use?


 No.60402

File: 1447266024150.png (582.61 KB, 1280x1305, 256:261, tumblr_nxmhhkAgPb1qfu03ho4….png)

>>60390

The difference is in the eye of the beholder only.

>>60320

No I didn't. 8ch shat on its own dick.Also if you didn't know, now you know nigga. So you have no excuse for being a stupid cunt about my shamanic androgyny anymore. You will be judged accordingly.


 No.60403

>>60390

They are the same thing.


 No.60412

File: 1447269021638-0.jpg (35.58 KB, 320x420, 16:21, berdache.jpg)

File: 1447269021639-1.jpg (26.67 KB, 390x375, 26:25, indiossioux.jpg)

File: 1447269021640-2.jpg (58.88 KB, 800x644, 200:161, We-Wa-a-Zuni-berdache-weav….jpg)

>>60402

>Judged accordingly

Get a load of this guy kek. Better change that symbol to special snowflake.

>I googled Berdache m8

>mfw they just look sexual confused transvestites.

>Though I know you will probably post a biased picture, or fantasized peace of artwork to further shill your homo agenda.

Faggot.


 No.60417

>>60390

>Congress shall make no law respecting religion.

There is no legal distinction between a rabbi, a priest, a pope, a medicine man, a shaman or an athiest in U.S.A.


 No.60442

File: 1447277211464-0.jpg (268.43 KB, 697x966, 697:966, f900ec00434035d5708c7d9b4a….jpg)

File: 1447277211465-1.jpg (67.84 KB, 600x800, 3:4, 7ad3ac74f52fa3dcd749484acf….jpg)

File: 1447277211465-2.jpg (321.4 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, adc2ebae03a019bd4fc7ff22e2….jpg)

File: 1447277211465-3.jpg (1.26 MB, 850x1827, 850:1827, sample_6ead08ce6e8589cf707….jpg)

File: 1447277211465-4.jpg (214.24 KB, 625x800, 25:32, iniciacion-shamanica-dmt-a….jpg)

SHAMANISM NIGS


 No.60465

>>60417

Yea but why directly take away their religions sacrament?


 No.60468

>>60283

OP you alive? What happened to your friend?


 No.60512

>>60468

We found out that it only allows peyote. lying to indians is not worth it when you can just buy the stuff online legally. We must of misunderstood one of the rules. If you want to claim religious exemption, you might as well just say you were practicing shamanism. It is basically what any psychedelics user does. You loose a lot of credibility by how you acquire these drugs though. The rule of thumb is that you grow them, don't buy, or sell them, and do not do them recreationally, A.k.a do it at home, unless you put your salvia, or weed into a cigarette.


 No.60547

>>60512

Are there any of these peyote churches that take in non native Americans?


 No.60590

>>60547

Yea the one I was talking about, ONAC.


 No.60685

>>60512

>>60590

You do know that there are different ONAC churches with larger selections of drugs. Your friend should keep the membership. Some churches haves shrooms, weed, and even ayahuasca


 No.60711

>>60685

That is the thing though, it is like a grey area, they do not make any clear association with it publicly, and he does not want to pay 350$ on false promises, of legal Marijuana, psychoactive mushrooms, and DMT. Plus, I can not find any court ruling that gave them anything more then peyote.


 No.60714

>>60711

350? The website says 200. I think your friend is getting duped. Also you can get an associates card by donating monthly and still have access to the "medicine". If your friend is a legal native, he only has to pay like 30.


 No.60715

>>60711

>>60714

Not to mention a lifetime of free drugs as well as free Native initiation is pretty worth the money.


 No.60719

>>60714

I think that only covers using them during official ceremonies, as far as I know. Which would still make possession illegal, the 20$ branch membership may take care of this, but I am unsure to whether that is true, or not.


 No.60720

>>60719

The 200 dollar one says it's a lifetime membership. Look at the details on the website and make sure. He should just buy it from there.

Because of massive evidence showing the positive effects of these sacraments and ceremonies, public opinion has been shifting in favor of doing away with legal penalties for use of these non-addictive natural plants and herbs, especially in healing, pain management and ceremony. Until these things are actually legalized on the state and federal level, however, the only way to safely take advantage of the help and blessings available from these God-given plants without fear of arrest is through Native American religious practices which are protected from government interference or punishment.

"Those who choose to join the ‘Oklevueha Native American Church (ONAC)’, are essentially standing up for their Constitutional Rights to participate in and to hold indigenous, earth-based, empowering, healing ceremonies and the cultivation and transportion of ONAC and/or its Independent Branches Sacraments."

http://nativeamericanchurches.org/membership/


 No.60722

>>60719

It says that members should not share the medicine with non members. It also mentions holding and transportation as part of the legal right. Pretty sure that implies he can take it home or buy online.


 No.60726

>>60720

It just seems to good to be true.


 No.60727

>>60726

Nigga please if it wasn't this good then no one would join. You gotta start believing man, this is /fringe/ all is possible bruh.


 No.61015

>>60722

>>60720

II can not find any law that says that they can use whatever they want, it is only peyote that that they seem able to use.


 No.61022

>>61015

That's why I told you to read the site, it is all on there. Whatever is classified as 'medicine' can be used.


 No.61026

What the most effective ways that shamans alter perception, without hallucinogenic substances.


 No.61075


 No.61093

>>61026

>>61075

You're fucking retarded. Just look it up…

Meditation obviously, training awareness, smoking tobacco or cannabis is not hallucinogenic but still works to enter trances, there is also practicing entering a hypnogogic state by putting your body to sleep while keeping consciousness awake.


 No.61103

File: 1447655839408.jpg (128.01 KB, 600x612, 50:51, `34464161`5.jpg)

>>61093

Wow, calm down there cowboy I was just trying to ask a question, hotshot, jeeeeeeesezoooo! So, how about you tell me some those practices there, in more depth. Such as the last one, how do I do that, have you ever done that yourself? I would like to hear more if you do not mind.


 No.61106

>>61103

Jesus, yes it's called the mind awake body asleep technique. It can be used to lucid dream and astral project. You can use it to turn on your astral senses as well. But there is too much detail, that is why you should just look it up. Montalk even has stuff about this on his site. Read the shaman books he recommends, also can never go wrong with Carlos Castaneda.


 No.61117

>>61106

Why are you so angry all the time, why are you even here?


 No.61124

>>61117

>Why are you so angry all the time

What? what even

>Why are you even here?

What are you five?


 No.61179

>>61124

You could be calm any day man, sheesh!


 No.61827

File: 1448370611299.png (46.59 KB, 1251x590, 1251:590, indian trannies transexual….png)

>>60307

>>60308

fucking sheits.


 No.61844

>>60412

negative labels and judgement hold you back more than the person you apply them to, if they do not accept them. If they do, then perhaps about equally, I imagine.

>>61117

perhaps to assist us to transcend the reaction from dealing with negative individuals. much easier to do without being near them.


 No.61845

>>61106

thanks.


 No.61846

>>60512

>you can just buy the stuff online legally

Really? I looked briefly and it doesn't seem to be legal aside from church use.


 No.62201

>>61846

Only peyote, you can still get San Pedro, and some others, yea of course it is illegal, but who cares what the laws thinks about personal spiritual development.


 No.62264

>>61846

Depending on where you live, you can order ayahausca online legally.

>>62201

It's not only peyote ffs.




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