No.30998
Thoughts on the 4th way and Gurdjieff in general? Is it just "another way" to achieve what we all want to achieve? Does it have anything to do with magic?
No.31003
I would consider the Fourth Way to be related to a lot of /fringe/ subjects, because it focuses on building "I AM"-consciousness (melting the little "I's" into one I AM) and making him more conscious to the outer world, himself and the whispers of his intuition. It is not exactly 'magic', for there is no thoughtforming, no rituals, etc. but it offers the magician what he needs; permanent I AM-consciousness. There is more but I have not studied enough.
Anyone who has read the Stellar Man has already dipped his toe in the Fourth/Fifth Way. It's a good book, Hermeticism and the Ways share a lot of teachings, both focus on making the individual master of his mental being.
Personally I do not submit to Gurdjieff's vision of the Work, I prefer Mouravieff on that though it has to be admitted that Gurdjieff was more 'magical' of the two - he had huge personal magnetism which he couldn't control, making people hypnotized with him, (which he didn't want to happen). And Gurdjieff knew more than he ever told, and it is disappointing he never shared his knowledge in more comprehensible form, (Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson is too incomprehensible, and the same ideas can be found in better works such as "In Search of the Miraculous" and "Gnosis".)
I think Montalk presents good criticism on Gurdjieff's vision of the Work, (the thing where no one has a soul and they would have to grow one);
http://montalk.net/metaphys/117/stages-of-conscious-awakening (this is a good article, recommended)
The Fifth Way is apparently more complete and clear; indeed, Gurdjieff only had the fragments. Read Mouravieff's "Gnosis"-series if you haven't yet, I am reading the first book and it explains the things Gurdjieff had trouble expressing himself.
No.31006
I shall turn this into Fourth Way General, if it is fine.
>Basis of teachings
The Fourth Way focuses on "conscious labor" and "intentional suffering."
Conscious Labor is an action where the person who is performing the act is present to what he is doing; not absentminded. At the same time he is striving to perform the act more efficiently.
Intentional suffering is the act of struggling against automatism such as daydreaming, pleasure, food (eating for reasons other than real hunger), etc… In Gurdjieff's book Beelzebub's Tales he states that "the greatest 'intentional suffering' can be obtained in our presences by compelling ourselves to endure the displeasing manifestations of others toward ourselves"
To Gurdjieff these two were the basis of all evolution of man.
>Self-Observation
This is to strive to observe in oneself behavior and habits usually only observed in others, and as dispassionately as one may observe them in others, to observe thoughts, feelings, and sensations without judging or analyzing what is observed.
>The Need for Effort
Gurdjieff emphasized that awakening results from consistent, prolonged effort. Such efforts may be made as an act of will after one is already exhausted.
>The Many 'I's
This indicates fragmentation of the psyche, the different feelings and thoughts of ‘I’ in a person: I think, I want, I know best, I prefer, I am happy, I am hungry, I am tired, etc. These have nothing in common with one another and are unaware of each other, arising and vanishing for short periods of time. Hence man usually has no unity in himself, wanting one thing now and another, perhaps contradictory, thing later.
>Centers
Gurdjieff classified plants as having one center, animals two and humans three. Centers refer to apparati within a being that dictate specific organic functions. There are three main centers in a man: intellectual, emotional and physical, and two higher centers: higher emotional and higher intellectual.
>Body, Essence and Personality
Gurdjieff divided people's being into Essence and Personality.
>Essence - is a "natural part of a person" or "what he is born with"; this is the part of a being which is said to have the ability to evolve.
>Personality - is everything artificial that he has "learned" and "seen".
>Cosmic Laws
Gurdjieff focused on two main cosmic laws, the Law of Three and the Law of Seven.
>The Law of Seven is described by Gurdjieff as "the first fundamental cosmic law". This law is used to explain processes. The basic use of the law of seven is to explain why nothing in nature and in life constantly occurs in a straight line, that is to say that there are always ups and downs in life which occur lawfully. Examples of this can be noticed in athletic performances, where a high ranked athlete always has periodic downfalls, as well as in nearly all graphs that plot topics that occur over time, such as the economic graphs, population graphs, death-rate graphs and so on. All show parabolic periods that keep rising and falling. Gurdjieff claimed that since these periods occur lawfully based on the law of seven that it is possible to keep a process in a straight line if the necessary shocks were introduced at the right time. A piano keyboard is an example of the law of seven, as the seven notes of the major scale correspond exactly to it.
>The Law of Three is described by Gurdjieff as "the second fundamental cosmic law". This law states that every whole phenomenon is composed of three separate sources, which are Active, Passive and Reconciling or Neutral. This law applies to everything in the universe and humanity, as well as all the structures and processes. The Three Centers in a human, which Gurdjieff said were the Intellectual Centre, the Emotional Centre and the Moving Centre, are an expression of the law of three. Gurdjieff taught his students to think of the law of three forces as essential to transforming the energy of the human being. The process of transformation requires the three actions of affirmation, denial and reconciliation.
How the Law of Seven and Law of Three function together is said to be illustrated on the Fourth Way Enneagram, a nine-pointed symbol which is the central glyph of Gurdjieff's system.
No.31039
Gurdjieff is based, and so is Ouspensky.
No.31074
No.31482
>>31006It's a musical scale?…
Except I learned "Tee, Do" not "Si, Do"
Hmmm…
No.31483
question thread
use it
No.31513
>>31483If only the OP made as much effort as the first guy responding to him in creating the thread this thread would be just fine…
I suggest that one anon who made those responses creates a new thread on this topic that doesn't just begin with a shitty bunch of questions.