/fringe/ - Fringe

Very interesting OP, I agree with quite a bit of this, but then again what the fuck do I know.

Henosis, yes, not gnosis. Sorry, I wrote that post at 4 am, I do most of my thinking when I'm trying to go to sleep.

What I described was a simplistic version of the Neoplatonic model. After looking it up, the Divine Nous would assume the role of the Demiurge, and the World Soul the spiritual aspect of the One, which is, as Plato said, the absolute principle of reality.

I'd call this principle logic (Logos), because it is logical for logic to exist. If it was logical for logical not to exist, it would still exist because it would be logical. In regards to gnosis, this is the process by which you become aware of the universe and the divine?

The universe existing in a cycle makes sense to me because, one, the All is more than the universe (As you said), and the Big Bang theory agrees with the expansion and contraction of the universe. We are only aware of this cycle, there have likely been innumerable universes before this one.

In regards to henosis, the goal of all I individuals is to partially mantle the One through the process of Theurgy. I'm primarily a writer, and my ambition in life is to peruse Theurgy by studying archaeology, history, Greek and Latin, and classical philosophy. If you failed to achieve henosis, do you stay on the astral plane until you chose to reincarnate?

If my grandmother did not achieve henosis, she would eventually reincarnate so she could give it another go, correct? In regards to the outcome that results from the process of henosis, after you become aware of the divine and follow Theurgy, you are united with the All, essentially achieving the enlightenment that Buddhism champions (Or would Buddhist enlightenment be gnosis? If yes, breaking the cycle of reincarnation would then be henosis?).

Are spirits aware of themselves on the astral plane? Could you interact with spirits you once knew, remembering past lives? Finally, after you achieve henosis, do you retain your consciousness, or do you join completely with the One? I assume that there is an infinite number of souls, because if every soul achieved henosis (All will but there will always be more souls to follow because as I said, there is an infinite number), there would be no reason for the universe to exist.

>>44597

Don't put yourself down, you likely know quite a bit.

(Cont because I switched from my phone to my computer):

I've actually been reading a translated copy of the Corpus Hermeticum, that's probably influenced me quite a bit.

Believe it or not, my first introduction to Neoplatonism was Final Fantasy VII. The game's mythology includes the concept of a world soul in the Lifestream (A sea of psychic energy that exists deep inside the living planet the game is set on, reincarnation (When creatures are born, they are given a soul by the Lifestream, and when they die, their soul returns to it) and the Gaia hypothesis (As I said, the planet in the game is actually a self-aware living being).

The game's writers were big into the Kabbalah (It's a Japanese PS1 game from 1998 so that is significant), so you can see what inspired the lore.

>>44603

Thank you friend, does achieving gnosis allow us to reincarnate in a higher density?

>>44609

>In regards to gnosis, this is the process by which you become aware of the universe and the divine?

It's the state of union with your individual spirit, your true, divine self. What some occult traditions call the holy guardian angel, higher self… and yoga calls Atman. The yogi for example, is supposed to first unite with atman (gnosis, self realization), and then merge into brahman (henosis, god-realization).

Gnosis means true knowledge, the banishing of agnosia (false knowledge) by the means of theurgy. The truth that becomes fully realized is that we are all god, you become liberated from reincarnation and forgetfulness with the attainment of full communion with your true self. It makes a lot of things happen, like changes in the astral body and the remembering of past lives.

>The universe existing in a cycle makes sense to me because, one, the All is more than the universe (As you said), and the Big Bang theory agrees with the expansion and contraction of the universe. We are only aware of this cycle, there have likely been innumerable universes before this one.

Yes, you're right.

>In regards to henosis, the goal of all I individuals is to partially mantle the One through the process of Theurgy. I'm primarily a writer, and my ambition in life is to peruse Theurgy by studying archaeology, history, Greek and Latin, and classical philosophy.

I'm not sure of what do you mean with "partially mantle the One through the process of Theurgy", sorry. English is not my native language.

Also, do you mean that you are planning on investigating theurgy without practicing it yourself, or that you will peruse it to practice it at a later stage? I can tell you something about this, but please, mail me first at khakistoryteller@outlook.com. Try to prove it's you.

>If you failed to achieve henosis, do you stay on the astral plane until you chose to reincarnate?

Not if you did at least achieve gnosis, otherwise yes.

>If my grandmother did not achieve henosis, she would eventually reincarnate so she could give it another go, correct? In regards to the outcome that results from the process of henosis, after you become aware of the divine and follow Theurgy, you are united with the All, essentially achieving the enlightenment that Buddhism champions (Or would Buddhist enlightenment be gnosis? If yes, breaking the cycle of reincarnation would then be henosis?).

Yes.

I don't follow buddhism and know little about their experience of enlightenment and nirvana. I think they're closer to gnosis than henosis, but don't take me seriously.

We break the cycle of reincarnation with gnosis alone.

>Are spirits aware of themselves on the astral plane? Could you interact with spirits you once knew, remembering past lives?

Some of them are, death is a big shock that often confuses and disorients the spirit, if you didn't have an high level of consciousness here on earth, don't expect to become aware of the astral plane soon. The place in the astral plane where you go after death is also directly related with the vibratory level of your consciousness.

Yes, you can do that after death if you have a decent vibratory level of consciousness, even if you didn't achieve gnosis, but you will still reincarnate and forget everything again.

>Finally, after you achieve henosis, do you retain your consciousness, or do you join completely with the One?

There is no loss of consciousness, there is a change, you start to see the whole universe as an aspect of yourself, instead of yourself as an aspect of God (gnosis). You become everything manifiest and inmanifiest, in short, you are now omnipresent and not enclosed in anything, but you can still partake in the illusory universe at any time, for example, inhabiting and acting through an incarnated body. That's what Babaji does.

Funny thing that you got to know this through FFVII.

>>44641

No problem brother, and yes, it does.

>>44660

Yes, I have been waiting for enrollment since november.

Will you join too, or are you already a member?

Very good post, by the way. You will help OP more than me, since the only things I know about neoplatonism yet are thanks to its similarity with yoga and hermeticism.

>>44733

I will be applying as well, and thank you for the compliment.

Did you know Veos offers his astrological services to the public now? I can send you a link to the mail you provided for OP, since I'm not much for sharing it here of all places.

>I'm inching towards Neoplatonism daily

Good, that's a wise choice of belief system. Remember knowledge of plate tectonics and their application in your life and others is key to understand and unlock the secrets and full potential of neoplatonism.

>>44657

>It's the state of union with your individual spirit, your true, divine self. What some occult traditions call the holy guardian angel, higher self… and yoga calls Atman. The yogi for example, is supposed to first unite with atman (gnosis, self realization), and then merge into brahman (henosis, god-realization).

>Gnosis means true knowledge, the banishing of agnosia (false knowledge) by the means of theurgy. The truth that becomes fully realized is that we are all god, you become liberated from reincarnation and forgetfulness with the attainment of full communion with your true self. It makes a lot of things happen, like changes in the astral body and the remembering of past lives.

It's interesting how compatible this is with the eastern faiths.

"I'm not sure of what do you mean with "partially mantle the One through the process of Theurgy", sorry. English is not my native language."

To matle something is to take up its responsibilities. Plotinus and his successors said that to achieve gnosis, you need to imitate the gods and the One.

"Plotinus urged contemplations for those who wished to perform theurgy, the goal of which was to reunite with The Divine (called henosis). Therefore, his school resembles a school of meditation or contemplation. Iamblichus of Calcis (Syria), a student of Porphyry (who was himself a student of Plotinus) taught a more ritualized method of theurgy that involved invocation and religious, as well as magical, ritual. Iamblichus believed theurgy was an imitation of the gods, and in his major work, On the Egyptian Mysteries, he described theurgic observance as "ritualized cosmogony" that endowed embodied souls with the divine responsibility of creating and preserving the cosmos.

Iamblichus' analysis was that the transcendent cannot be grasped with mental contemplation because the transcendent is supra-rational. Theurgy is a series of rituals and operations aimed at recovering the transcendent essence by retracing the divine 'signatures' through the layers of being. Education is important for comprehending the scheme of things as presented by Aristotle, Plato and Pythagoras but also by the Chaldaean Oracles.[8] The theurgist works 'like with like': at the material level, with physical symbols; at the higher level, with mental and purely spiritual practices. Starting with correspondences of the divine in matter, the theurgist eventually reaches the level where the soul's inner divinity unites with The Divine."

>lso, do you mean that you are planning on investigating theurgy without practicing it yourself, or that you will peruse it to practice it at a later stage?

No, my goal is to pursue it. I intend to study archaeology, ancient history, Greek/Latin, and ancient philosophy so I can ground myself. I've applied to university, obviously. I studied Logic as a subject in the past, but the theological course I was doing was too Christian focused, so my aim is to study the classical philosopher instead.

>We break the cycle of reincarnation with gnosis alone.

I thought we still reincarnate, but with the knowledge from our past lives (Hermes Trismegistus comes to mind)?

>Some of them are, death is a big shock that often confuses and disorients the spirit, if you didn't have an high level of consciousness here on earth, don't expect to become aware of the astral plane soon. The place in the astral plane where you go after death is also directly related with the vibratory level of your consciousness.

About this, my grandmother was aware of her death. She knew she was dying (She died of heart failure that manifested through shallow breathing about two or three hours before she died), her exact words when my mother asked her did she want to go to hospital where: "You're not bringing an ambulance down here, I'm just going to die sitting in my chair and that's that."

My mother called an ambulance anyway, but my grandmother died soon after it arrived. I wasn't there at the time, but she no pain and no fear. She simply asked my mother was I doing well (I was heavily depressed at the time and she always asked was I doing okay), and then died popping bubble wrap (She kept an entire roll of it beside her chair because she loved it so much).

The strange thing was, she began making preparations for this years in advance. She wasn't sick or anything, apart from her arthritis, but she had a grave prepared, a sizeable insurance policy (Which we didn't even about. She insured my grandfather as well for even more than herself) covering herself, and a new will she had myself and my mother re-do almost a year to the day she died. In the month or so before she died (I don't know if there would have been signs), she began talking a lot about her past, almost as if she was letting go of any regrets she might have had.

>>44752

(Cont because word limit)

>There is no loss of consciousness, there is a change, you start to see the whole universe as an aspect of yourself, instead of yourself as an aspect of God (gnosis). You become everything manifiest and inmanifiest, in short, you are now omnipresent and not enclosed in anything, but you can still partake in the illusory universe at any time, for example, inhabiting and acting through an incarnated body.

So you would become a god, or? I though that when you achieve henosis, you merge into the One?

"That's what Babaji does."

I find the Indian and eastern mystics like Babaji interesting. I've seen videos of Buddhist clerics who can survive for years without water. One of them was actually watched by a group of doctors for several months. They described his survival as a "medical mystery" and a "miracle up close."

>>44751

Plate tectonics?

>>44748

Great, I hope we get in.

Yes, please, send me the link. I had no idea about that.

>>44660

>The One is indeed said to be outside our understanding. It is also said by Plotinus to be beyond Being. The Yogic counterpart would be Brahman, that which is not. It is symbolized as The Primordial Waters in nearly all mythologies, and the Light that springs forth is Nous.

>It is at the level of Nous where Being, Life and Intelligence begins. This is the realm of the Gods, Spirit, and Divine Intellect.

>Psyche is the level of Soul, and functions as a receptacle of Nous, and as a blueprint of the material world. These three levels - The One, Nous and Psyche - are known as the Three Hypostases in Plotinus. Franz Bardon, for example, gives us a threefold constitution of man; the physical body, the human soul, and the divine spirit. He doesn't mention The One because nothing can be said about It.

I've come across this breakdown before, you can actually see a version it in the image I included along with my original post.

What I described initially was too simplistic (As I later admitted), recognising only the One and Nous, and merging everything else into the World Soul (Which I originally considered to be the One). I didn't even recognise Essence, Being, Nature, and Matter, only Soul and Intellect (Which I called logic, or Logos).

>While Plato himself rationalized the teachings of Egypt, and while reason does serve as a powerful tool in the purification of the soul and the understanding of divine laws, human logic and reason is quite limited in it's scope.

I considered logic the fundamental principle the universe and all of reality is based on (The One being logic incarnate) because it is the one thing that will always exist. For example, if it was logical for logic not to exist, it would still exist, because that position would be logical.

>Direct experience is valued above all. In order to convey the knowledge gained from such an experience, one has to use symbolism, which Franz Bardon calls the language of Nature, since it pertains to the imagination, and by extension, intuition as well. As a sidenote, even our thoughts are highly metaphorical in nature, and from personal observation, they seem to have more of a visual consistency than an audible one.

I've come across Franz Bardon before, but I need to have an in-depth look at his ideas. What you said makes sense to me, but I could do with looker into it deeper.

>God, in the feminine aspect as Divine Providence, can indeed hinder ones progress towards Gnosis.

>First of, in Neoplatonism, God is known as The Good. In order to come closer to God, to experience Him in a state of Gnosis, one needs a soul that is receptive - in other words, a character with virtue, or as Plato says; one must imitate God. While virtue is magnetic, vice is repulsive. The main premise is that like attracts like.

Very interesting. I could see why vice could hinder you, but what does that cover? It's a very general term. A lot of religions and faiths differ on what is vice, and what is virtue, so you can see where I'm coming from.

What is the feminine aspect of God you speak of? I've not come across the Divine Providence before.

>While I do believe that all will return back to its source eventually, completing the rhytm of descent and ascent, I also think that man can be an active participant in this play, choosing sooner than later.

I completely agree.

Plotinus seems to have viewed love in a negative light (A common feature in gnostic religions), which is in direct opposition to Plato.

Plato and Socrates considered the search for love and romance the search for what is good, which I would agree with. I said love was divine because it was beautiful, and Plato's definition of love as the search for what is good would seem to agree with this.

Continuing with this theme, Plato says that true love occurs when you recognise the beauty of the soul. Howver, both Plato and Plotinus considered sex to be beneath the soul, which I would disagree with. It's beneath the soul when it's all you focus on, but if you have it in moderation, where is the problem?

>>44759

>For example, if it was logical for logic not to exist, it would still exist, because that position would be logical.

Reminds me of Marsilio Ficino.

"Truth is so eternal that even if it is said to have had a beginning at some time, it would certainly have been true before the beginning of time, and it would not have been true except through the same truth, that truth itself would at sometime be. And even if truth should be thought ever to cease, then it would be true for all time, yet only through truth itself would it be true, that truth once was. If truth is unmoving in movement, if it is present in past and future, if it is in the beginning without a beginning, if likewise in the end without an end, it is certainly nothing other than the eternal unmoving self."

>Very interesting. I could see why vice could hinder you, but what does that cover? It's a very general term. A lot of religions and faiths differ on what is vice, and what is virtue, so you can see where I'm coming from.

In regards to virtue, I believe it is best to avoid religious dogma and simply use reason. To give a simple definition, I'll return to Marsilio Ficino again;

"To sum up, reflective virtue is simply an acquired clarity of the intellect, and moral virtue is a constant warmth of heart kindled by that clarity. We should remember that of the human virtues none is more precious than discrimination. As Plato observes in The Republic, to buy this one should sell everything else."

The Neoplatonic tradition does tend to get technical with virtues though, especially Iamblichus.

>What is the feminine aspect of God you speak of? I've not come across the Divine Providence before.

It is a term used by Franz Bardon and Neoplatonists such as Plotinus and Iamblichus. Bardon wrote that he was sent by Divine Providence to reveal the Tarot cards. He leaves no room for doubt that he is in the service of Divine Providence.

I call it a feminine aspect of God because in the introduction to Bardon's second book, It is referred to as a She. Bardon also happened to have a ring of Isis according to his son, and often had pictures of Indian goddesses hanging in his room. It does remind me of a Divine Mother, an omnipresent observer and a caring participant.

Iamblichus wrote that the two causes of the world and it's events was fate and Providence; everything that happens according to fate is also dependent on Providence, but the highest things in the universe is dependent on Providence alone.

>>44766

No problem with making love, in my opinion. Plain fucking, thats another thing though.

Celibacy does have it's benefits, since it conserves the vitality, but it's not a necessity.

>>44801

What do you mean regarding vitality?

Sorry, but I don't agree with the whole "ejaculation = loss of energy" argument.

>>44803

Akasha is said to be contained within the semen. The Yogic and Taoist traditions in particular emphasize the potency of this fluid.

>>44752

Thanks for the info, I now know a little bit more about neoplatonism.

>No, my goal is to pursue it. I intend to study archaeology, ancient history, Greek/Latin, and ancient philosophy so I can ground myself. I've applied to university, obviously. I studied Logic as a subject in the past, but the theological course I was doing was too Christian focused, so my aim is to study the classical philosopher instead.

If you want to know of a good place to learn theurgy, mail me.

>I thought we still reincarnate, but with the knowledge from our past lives (Hermes Trismegistus comes to mind)?

A being which has attained gnosis can incarnate at will if he wishes to, usually to fulfill some task in help of humanity. If not, he probably stays in the astral or causal planes until henosis is attained.

The death of your grandmother seems to me like a pretty good one, peacefulness and acceptance are a good sign.

>So you would become a god, or? I though that when you achieve henosis, you merge into the One?

You merge your consciousness with that of the one, effectively becoming not just a part of it, like a cell of our body, but the one and only in all of its totality.

Babaji is an avatar (earthly incarnation of a deva) of Shiva.

Yeah, the self-realized eastern mystics can work literal miracles, if you read the book Autobiography of a Yogi by Yogananda, you will get to know a lot of them.

>>44801

>>44803

>>44811

Learned hermeticists and yogis usually recommend not making love more than twice a month if you don't want to damage your practices and progress.

The recommendation is exclusively aimed at householders and assuming it's done with love. Having sex just for pleasure and masturbation are counter-advised.

For the renunciant, celibacy is needed.

>>44812

>If you want to know of a good place to learn theurgy, mail me.

Why not just post the info here?