/fringe/ - Fringe

>>72316

Read some WWA, then read some Christian philosophers, then read Nietzsche, Freud and Kant.

Then you decide for yourself.

>>72316

Just get your shit together.

Why does Christianity true/falseness confirm Occultism as satanic or not?

Why are you interested? Because "your betters" are obsessed with it?

Actually I'd say that most of the people here are indifferent or morally aligned with the original church's commandments.

You really need some backup before coming and speaking things that make you look like a fool…

Also question threads are not accepted in this page, go to the first sticky in the board.

>>72325

>not wanting to understand the psyche of every side

m8 do you even transcend

>>72328

>learning anything true from Freud

mate you know psychology actually has developed since then and that Freud is almost entirely debunked nonsense? (so is 60% of psych tho)

>>72316

You are incredibly brainwashed. Ignore that retarded Christian religion and its opposite Satanism both are wrong. Magick is about the mental nature of the universe and using the imagination to influence it. It works upon laws which are neutral in their nature and may be exploited by anyone with any intentions. The same power that heals is the same power that kills.

>>72335

>debunked nonsense

According to who? I don't know why anyone on /fringe/ would talk about debunked anything when the recommended reading list is nonsense to just about everyone. It's still an important read to get the full picture.

OP, I'm not some christian sheep but fuck these people and listen to me

demons are real, the occult can make you fall prey very easily to sins. the name Jesus Christ is the only name that demon fears

dont listen to these faggots here about jesus they'll tell you he's a kike but they're the kikes. Read KJV Bible and dont pursue satanic knowledge, augment your chi and healing powers.

Christian religion is occult to brah.

Get into the gnostic texts and figure out the truth of it all. Basically they want you to stay dumb and controlled so that is why the council of nicea banned that stuff early on. The real christian mysics were some powerful people. And the mysteries behind Jesus's true purpose are still shrouded from public view.

>>72402

I'm pretty sure they fear pagan godforms too, like Tyr, Mars, Odin, Zeus, Thor, Baldur, Venus, Freyja, etc.

And yes, Jesus was a pretty cool guy, even if he wasn't Osiris, and Osiris is pretty fucking cool guy.

>>72362

I highly doubt you've ever read Freud, you'd have to be completely retarded to believe in even the base assumptions of his theory (the anal phase etc)

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~kihlstrm/freuddead.htm

>its still an important read to get the full picture

absolutely retarded, if I asked a toddler to write a book on psychology it wouldnt become necessary to 'get a full picture' and yet it would be just as correct as Freud would be.

the only value Freud has at all is in understanding the history of psychology a little better.

>I don't know why anyone on /fringe/ would talk about x

grow up faggot

>>72402

see

>>72412

Try Joseph Benner's works. If you're too lazy to read there are audiobooks on youtube (you'll have to deal with the voice of threader however). Manly P Hall, the Kybalion, and some of Atkinson's books can still work with Christian beliefs. Remember to discern for yourself what is true and take everything with a grain of salt.

Also:

> not using Yeshua's real name

> giving energy to some thoughtform and not the real deal.

>>72325

^this

>>72316

"Christianity" is bullshit. A Dark God usurped all your names and deities so thay you would only worship him.

Jesus was a good guy though, one that sought to spread word of a "good" path of love and shit… Your dark god still used his name though. The bible is half truth, half bullshit.

>2016. people still kills and "gives loosh" to the dark god in the name of bullshit zealotry…

>>72603

>the bible is half truth half bullshit

Oh, you'e one of those faggots who deny the OT?

Well tell me, how can Jesus be the real thing if the OT, which was all about preparing the world for his coming and prophesized it is bullshit?

If the OT is not true, the NT is also a farce, and Jesus is a liar. You cannot deny the OT without denying the NT.

>>72615

>being this square minded on fringe

You don't know a thing about what I believe or don't, faggot.

But I'll make one and only one attempt to explain, and you can either understand it or go fuck yourself, I hardly even care.

>The ancients were no dicks, they actually saw some shit and attempted to understand it. Their legacy, is myth, but seen from a different perspective, the truth has been distorted in ways we can't even begin to comprehend, therefore, truth becomes bullshit and disinformation just like the telephone game. And about Jesus and other folk, their message remains clear through all the bullshit: don't be an asshole, love more and evolve your consciousness.

And btw the OT was all about god being an asshole to everything not hebrew, murdering everyone else, treating Eve like a hooker and wanting people dead because "sinners"

>>72316

Personally I believe in a form of atheistic occasionalism where no events or things are real or false and events or things do not cause one another but that events and things only are consistent with and not causative of one another. So to say that some deity caused everything would be wrong as the creation of everything would be an inevitable consequence of that deity's nature and that deity's nature would be an inevitable consequence of creation (if that being was indeed consistent with the universe.)

>>72412

>The real christian mysics were some powerful people

Because they used the power of YVWH, as anybody can do. This doesn't prove that christianity is true, but more that hermeticism is true. YVWH is powerful due to the amount of energy he gets through worship and acknowledgement. The reason most banishing rituals evoke YVWH is not because he's all-mighty but because he is powerful and good.

all that edge ITT

OP, what you must ask yourself is WHY magick works if indeed it does.

For some answer, I would suggest looking to King Solomon, considered by some circles as an originator of Western magical practices and occultism. Basically, the story goes, he was seduced by foreign gods, but also bound demons to do his bidding.

As for the hows and whys, another question you may wish to ask yourself is, what is prayer, why if indeed it does work does it work, and how is that different from magicks.

>>72668

Also this. Very, very much this. One might also consider such pathways as Rosicrucianism, or why it is that the very foundation of Masonry is a Judeo-Christian template.

Frankly the fact that you all are mocking Christianity and discounting it speaks volumes as to OP's fears, and yes it is Satanic in thought and form if indeed it is practiced by people such as this. But the hidden keys are found as much in Gnostic Christianity as anything else, and furthermore, I find it laughable that you idiots are blasting Christianity which you likely do not even understand when this is the very basis for much of Western occult traditions. The Eastern mystical elements did not even permeate Western society until the 1960s.

>>72679

> but because he is powerful and good

As in morally good or as in like get good?

>>72713

I should have elaborated on that. I'm not too well educated in how abrahamic religions relate. I call "God" "YVWH" because that is who jews worship, and christianity is based on judiasm. YVWH in judiasm, however, is a war god. But in christianity, God is peaceful.

I would avoid evoking God/YVWH just in case.

So I kind of meant morally good, but mostly "get good". He's very powerful due to mass worship, and can give indefinite energy (hence him being the basis of banishing)

>>72714

Let me put it this way: you kids should not be doing full bore magickal workings without some basic understandings of multiple systems, including in particular Christianity since you are mostly going on this stuff from a Western tradition afaik.

Try and have some understanding of it before you bash it.

>>72715

>including in particular Christianity since you are mostly going on this stuff from a Western tradition afaik.

I'd highly recommend everybody avoid western occultism and tradition entirely as most of it is worship and evoking of entities rather than improving yourself as eastern occultism does.

>>72723

>I've never heard of alchemy

>>72727

Great digits but taoist alchemy is far superior and without the unnecessary baggage that Western occultism has.

>>72721

Dude i've started following Christianity not too long ago and my life is much better now it helped a lot more than the books in the reading list, though i feel that im not growing anymore. Could you tell us more?

I've been asking myself some philosophical questions on the meaning and nature of free will, the human spirit, and wondering about self determination and asking myself whether the christian God respects these things. And I dont think he does, or at least that's the conclusion I come to. I mean if we have free will and the ability to choose our own destiny then how can he have a plan for each human being? If we do yet he overrides such dreams and desires is he just? If he doesn't and simply builds his plans around our actions is he truly a god? If the case turns out to be we simply have an illusion of free will and we are simply delusional machines made of flesh is that not needlessly cruel?

I also have become, I hate to say confused but for lack of a better word I will,that christians are commanded not to hate but only to love. But how can one love without hate? Does one not hate that which harms what it loves? They are two sides of the same coin. Hate and love both give great strength to people, both burn incredibly bright and often incredibly long times.

Another thing that confuses me is how the devil in christian theology could rebel against God. He was an angel correct? They were not given free will. This implies one of two things to me.

1. That he developed free will somehow and acted against God in some way.

Or

2. He was essentially a patsy, a mindless drone made to do such things through no volition of his own.

If either is the case then is that not also cruel?

Perhaps I have simply gone mad, or perhaps I am a rambling fuel. But I must admit I find some aspects of the pagan faiths to be attractive to me morally and philosophically

>>72809

Shhh Shhh. It will all be alright, just have some faith, but I promise it will all make sense one day…

But to get there, it is necessary to give a leap of faith. To a world where you forget everything you think you know and notions of what you have known as a certainty from the beginning of your life crumble to pieces. To Know, first one needs to acknowledge one Knows nothing. There is what you think you want and what your true self wants, there is need, desire and whim, there is the spirit and there is the mind, there is Being and there is Ego. And there is Truth as there are Lies just like there is Knowing and there is Dogma.

Dogma kills the Mind and imprisons the Spirit. If you truly desire to Know, you must give yourself to the Void, release your baggage and clean your mind of programming and preconception. Only after that one can truly begin to grasp an Understanding of what everything is truly about…

>>72809

In Christianity, the Father is the All, the Son is some sort of Universal Higher Self and the Holy Spirit is ????

The journey is going through the Son to meet the Father. None shall come unto the father but through me. Paganism may sound nice philosophically and morally, but the actual goal of magic/spirituality isn't just the betterment of man in the moral sense, it's an actual, living, magical connection with God himself. That's the purpose of Christianity, and i don't know why people bash Christianity so much when the eastern monastic practices are very based (prayer, fasting, mental transmutation) maybe it got some bad reputation from all the Christians that make stupid Christ-chan memes, but oh well

>>72993

Yes but are you sure the God of Christianity is indeed the all?

>>72809

I have a legitimate answer for you…

It comes from the tree of life, which I visualized when you asked this question that caused me to ponder.

You can do anything out of love or hate, it is a duality but separate from the duality of the tree of life. It almost seems like it adds a third dimension to it. Which must be what they refer to as the quiloph.

You can lie out of love, you can steel out of love, you can kill out of love. You can love those that hurt you through understanding of the causes to do so. you can fuck a girl out of love or can fuck a girl out of hate.

A sociopath that continues to kill countless lives, you could strangle while looking into there eyes with love and compassion… just as you shoot a horse that breaks his leg….

I think acting in love has been misinterpreted as limiting or cutting your actions in half, however this seems to be untrue.

Secondly jesus said you are counted for and cared for by God. You have a fucking free will, God is a macro manager, not a micro micro manager.

You choose your path.

God is rules anthropomorphized. Just think about how God works. But this presuppose s that ancient man knew the in and outs of living in tune with the universe

>>72714

Saying yvwh is a ward God is dis information.

any experienced Christian here? How to pray properly to get help from God to make your life better?

>>73617

Not a christfag but I do the orthodox prayer of the heart. Look it up; it's highly effective. Going to sleep right now, maybe when I wake up I'll write how to do it in-depth.

>>73643

please do, it would be great to know.

Christ has great capabilities.

He has followed the archetypal journey of the Great Prophet, after his transformation in the desert of 40 days length he rejected the three offers from Satan, all of them relating to great power and the misuse of power. (Turning stones to bread, commanding angels to do things, and inheriting a great kingdom)

This is similar to Buddha's choice to leave his wife, his inheritance of a Kingdom, and the prophetic dream his Mother had before he was born that he had a choice between Great Prophet and Great Conqueror. I believe in particular versions of the story Buddha is quite literally tempted by the Hindu god of illusion (Whose name I cannot recall) which could relate to Satan's relation with the illusion like reality we live in.

So, this is my personal interpretation of Christianity when it comes to the particular of whether or not he is worthy of admiration. Certainly he reached a climatic point in his lives and could have been many other great people of the ages and most assuredly reached direct communion with The One. Whether or not you can say he's God in the flesh I do not know, there is numerous ways of interpreting such things.

As another poster said, he most likely is the greatest magician of them all. Who knows, maybe Christ rained fire as like Elijah as John the Baptist warned the Pharisees that he will bring ''Baptism of the Holy Spirit(Water in a sense, baptism) AND Fire. Which are I believe, the two bottom sefiroth of the most basic Kabbalstic tree.

It's good to keep in mind though that western traditions are twisty and twisty thoughts can have grand treasures at the end, or one big lie.>>72316

>>73710

Christ was a great man who achieved enlightenment, and he did exist. He spread a great message. He is worthy of admiration. But that does not mean you must believe in Christianity.

>>73712

True, not to mention Christianity's mystic side is certainly lacking. Although it is seeing it's revival, many of the cabalstic interpretations of Christ do not have a direct line to Christ himself, who most likely did have some knowledge of this occult method.

Also, that certain gnostic traditions may had a very elaborate mystic path as some of them considered the Demiurge a terrible force and may entirely disdain the idea of the Kabbalah and may have had a fresh mystical practice that COULD have roots within Christ but since everything was ruined by the Orthodox churches while at the same time ensuring the religion's survival with the mystic side as a casualty.

>>73643

> it's highly effective

in what? I read it's about gaining spiritual connection with Jesus. Also, apparently it needs lots of time and dedication.

Jesus was a magician.

>>72804

Same here

>>73713

did not a single gnostic survive?

I think often that we appreciate and see the great geniuses of our pasts quite clearly, yet we miss instead the geniuses who are present now. Similarly I suspect we miss great religious revivals by looking only into the past.

surely with the internet age there is a true gnostic of Christs mystery tradition willing to open the teachings to those who will listen world wide..

>>73713

>may had

>everything was ruined

But anon, their texts did survive. You complain about everything being ruined but you clearly didn't look very far for a mystical tradition within Christianity. Check out Nag Hammadi scrolls. I dislike Christianity with all my heart, but even I know about its esoteric roots.

also a response to

>>74294

>>74312

This is in many ways the essence of many left hand path schools of thought.

Jesus was most likely a black magician encouraging everyone to submit the lower self (chained to the entropy of the macrocosm) to the higher self (exploring the infinite potential of the microcosm / imagination), in an attempt of expanding individual free will in it's truest sense.

I've found that accepting the paradoxical nature of reality opens many doors.

'This OR that' becomes 'this AND that,' eventually leading to the realization that 'this IS that.'

The true essence of Christ's message is that of individuation and true freedom.

I am of the opinion that Jesus Christ is the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

TWO readings from Twilight Language for the Day of Ra-Hoor-Khuit:

ANTICHRIST - In the New Testament of the Bible, the term "antichrist" is used to collectively describe those who deny the existence of the flesh-and-blood Jesus as the "Son of God". In later use, and especially today, the two Beasts and False Prophet of the Book of the Apocalypse or Revelation are conflated into a composite end-times tyrant who is a pawn or even incarnation of Satan and referred to as the (singular) Antichrist.

Comparable figures also exist in Judaism and Islam. For medieval Jews, the anti-Messiah Armilus is an oppressor who will conquer Jerusalem and persecute the Jews until being destroyed by the true Messiah or directly by Jehovah. For the Muslims, al-Masih ad-Dajjal, the Deceiving Messiah, is one who will appear and impersonate the true Messiah. While Armilus is said to be partially maimed and leprous, ad-Dajjal is said to be blind in one eye.

But if the Antichrist is a counterfeit and Great Deceiver of the masses as is so often said, there are issues that we must consider. Those Gnostic sects which distinguish the Christ ("Anointed") spirit from Jesus as a man - and thus considered antichrists, themselves, according to orthodoxy as described above - held that the Christ was a liberating spirit opposed to the Demiurge or Master of this World and its servants, the Archons ("Rulers"), who work to keep souls in ignorance and bondage.

If we consider the Christ in this sense, we must ask: What has been the oppressor of the Spirit? What has been the suppressor of knowledge? What has shed the blood of countless men, women and children in tyranny? And yet…who has been mindlessly adored as an idol by the masses? Who or what, then, is the Antichrist? The answer is obvious: the historicized Jesus of the churches and the doctrines of blind faith, Self-sacrifice, obedience and the fetishization of weakness and poverty.

See BLACK SUN, ESCHATON and FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE.

…and the other…

STAR-SPONGE VISION - A vision experienced by Aleister Crowley in 1916 e.v. He described it in comments on the Book of the Law and in his autobiography as follows:

"I was on a retirement in a cottage overlooking Lake Pasquaney in New Hampshire. I lost consciousness of everything but a universal space in which were innumerable bright points, and I realized this as a physical representation of the universe, in what I may call its essential structure. I exclaimed, 'Nothingness with twinkles!' I concentrated upon this vision, with the result that the void space which had been the principal element of it diminished in importance; space appeared to be ablaze, yet the radiant points were not confused, and I thereupon completed my sentence with the exclamation, 'but what twinkles!'

"The next stage of this vision led to an identification of the blazing points with the stars of the firmament, with ideas, souls, etc. I perceived also that each star was connected by a ray of light with each other star. In the world of ideas each thought possessed a necessary relation with each other thought; each such relation is of course a thought in itself; each such ray is itself a star. It is here that the logical difficulty first presents itself. The seer has a direct perception of infinite series. Logically, therefore, it would appear as if the entire space must be filled up with a homogeneous blaze of light. This however is not the case. The space is completely full and yet the monads which fill it are perfectly distinct. The ordinary reader might well exclaim that such statements exhibit symptoms of mental confusion."

See THELEMA.

>>73505

>"God of Christianity"

>believing there's more than one god

>The Creator/Source/Father

>Esoteric interpretation of all religions basically

Pick one and get back to me

>jk

both are true, entities leech onto memes we carry, passed down from our idiot ancestors who must not have known better or something

these memes being the lies we tell ourselves and each other which sustain society and its social/religious/military institutions

Truth is One, divided to create beauty. The act of observing allows for the opportunity of lies to be believed in, because the eyes are fallible.

That's where Faith comes in. The true soul of Christianity is a prayer that is a silent prayer of the heart, which words cannot describe. Jesus was said to have sustained a constant active faith, which is what we should all aspire to.

What would be the best version of the Bible to read for the first time? The KJV gets referenced a lot but from what I understand there was some fuckery in the original translation of it. Is the Bible and Christianity even worth reading/studying?

The last thing I'm gonna do is trust a fucking Jew again. I don't care how anti-Semitic you think Christianity really is, I don't care how good of a teacher Jesus was, I don't care how powerful a wizard you think he was, but I'm not trusting a fucking Jew again and I can't understand how anyone who has spent a day on 8ch would ever do that, full stop.