/fringe/ - Fringe

No, you're not entitled to my loosh and my time. You've got the library there. You've got this whole board. Many people have been noted in medical records, in various books, etc. for having produced occult phenomena. What do you bring to the table? When I feel like it, I'll do magick for my own purposes, and sometimes I will share it and sometimes I won't. I tell you anon, I FEEL what you feel when you direct your attention towards me, and your mentality rubs off into me to the point I can be temporarily duped by your own scepticism. Do you know how difficult it is doing magick without your psychic deadweight, your doubt, making it even more difficult? Hell I know when some faggot is jerking off to me. I register the thoughts of others all the time, if not in full, at least I get the general intent and the feeling of you arising in my consciousness. You think I want that in my mental sphere? I'd rather redirect your attention and drive you away from me then have you weighing me down with your materialism. Every thought matters, your thoughts matter, when you got a group of mediums together in a room sometimes a given individual is requested to leave because it doesn't work with the others well. Different people with different mentalities lend themselves in different ways to these operations.

Maybe you sceptics should read the chaos magick texts and learn to form meta-beliefs on a whim. The mentality of "I won't believe in it until I see it proven to me" literally prevents you in most cases from ever acquiring that proof.

You keep things up with demanding everything be done for you, you might just end up becoming a test subject for someone to try out an experiment on, whether you like being subjected to their experiment or not… but most likely you're going to be stuck in an endless emotional loop where, by the law of attraction, you will fail to pull to you the experiences you actually want.

The thinker thinks, and the prover proves. They will turn all evidence you provide into an "edited" clip, or a lie. Let them. How can they involve themselves in a belief based reality when they cannot even believe in that reality in the first place?

Seriously it's the (((current year))), how can anyone still not believe in magick, with all the shitloads of evidence and reports on occult phenomena out there? :^)

u mad

>>81917

lol right. op is the loser in this scenario

Where are the posts from that one guy who ended up in the hospital with signs sent to him by Lord Kek?

>>81938

Incessant complaining about mundanes and letting the negativity and arrogance affect you like this doean't make you any better than the other losers.

Actually when you consider that OP is aware, while the 'losers' are just ignorant, it becomes clear that the ignorant are just victims to the control system. But if you are not ignorant and are aware, then you would be a real loser to still bitch and moan instead of doing something productive.

At the very least OP could have constructively described the phenomena and discuss how to reveal the delusions and enlighten the ignorant

Do you believe in magick? Yes? No? Maybe?

No matter what you answer to this question, read on… I am going to ask you a series of questions about what you think is possible.

Do you think it's possible that very subtle forces can have immense effect upon a a larger and very complex system? In other words; do you believe in Chaos Theory?

Do you believe that everything is infinitely-interconnected? That no part of the universe stands apart from the rest of it, that every slight change is felt everywhere else in the universe, that the entire thing changes when any of its parts change?

Do you believe in the power of rhythmic things to loosen up and free the concentration of the mind? That when the senses are freed up from their work through sensory deprivation or tuning out the surroundings, the mind's powers are heightened?

Do you believe "it is axiomatic that the speed of the control system must be greater than that of the motions of the process concerned.", that in other words the driver must react faster than the car or it will crash, and the human mind must be composed of vibrations faster than matter or it could not control the material body?

Do you believe that there is mind in your body? All through your nervous system and your brain? Then it is a big step to consider that there is potentially mind in everything? If you believe then that there is mind in everything, couldn't the mind within everything be influenced by mental processes?

Do you believe in the intelligent organization of your body and of all other bodies for that matter? That because you are alive, your body is held together as a living form? That forms are something platonic, archetypal, ideal, belonging to a higher order of nature?

Is it really absurd to think that all of the phenomena of occultism is possible? That you can mentally influence others and yourself? That you can form powerful thoughts and transfer them to others?

Do you not believe in your will? That you can move your own arm?

>>82243

Why would you believe you are the product of blind force and chance? Force is not blind, science does not ever say it is blind. It is in fact intelligent and mental. Even more absurd is the idea that anything can be coincidental and up to chance. Nobody believes in ontological randomness, it's overwhelmingly denounced, and anyone who is a fan of science believes in causality; that everything has a cause. There is no chance at all, chance is a word for caused unrecognized. Coincidences only look that way when no seen from a greater perspective.

Another thing to consider, do you not believe you can experience time dilations? That you could not experience an hour in a minute, or a even a day, months, years, or lifetimes?

Think of anything at all that you might consider possible. Think about the power of the mind. Think about how you could be using the power of your mind. Do you believe in crazy, mad people, who experience things completely detached from reality? Powerful, vivid, experiences that are all but real to them? Why don't you explore the power of your own mind, and see just what incredible things you can conjure up, and what you can make those "phantoms", those "hallucinations", those THOUGHTFORMS do for you.

Concerning divination, are you not aware of the holographic principle, the All in All? That the seed of everything is contained within everything else? That being so; why can you not focus on anything and divine the answers to any questions from anything?

Do you not believe in the Compton Effect? "You can make red light from blue light – because its energy is less – but not blue light from red light. 'The faster vibrating blue light is programming for red light, but not vice versa.'"

Concerning matter and energy and thought; why would you ever believe they aren't all interchangeable, each one becoming the other, and thought being primary. Thought is primary due to control system theory, because it is clearly at a much higher vibration than matter and energy, and only something faster can control what is below it (like in the Compton Effect).

I can't understand how people do not believe magick is real. There is no good reason to believe that things like mental influence at any distance, telepathy, thoughtforming, tulpamancy, dreaming, trances, divination, etc. are not possible.

You'd have to believe in a world where things are not interconnected, where random events happen without cause, where control systems don't have to faster than what is controlled, where living-force does not intelligently assemble matter into forms, where you do not control your body at all and your will is just an illusion, where mind is not within everything, where rationality, reason, and evidence at all thrown out the window.

Magick is a high science of the mind. The materialists are failures or hypocrites. That there are fakes, charlatans, etc. does not mean magick is somehow not real. All occult phenomena is POSSIBLE and MAKES SENSE in light of REASON and EVIDENCE.

>>82038

>then you would be a real loser to still bitch and moan instead of doing something productive.

Why are you bitching and moaning in this thread right now instead of "doing something productive" then?

>At the very least OP could have constructively described the phenomena and discuss how to reveal the delusions and enlighten the ignorant

Why aren't you doing that then and blowing everyone the fuck out with your ability to simply and clearly explain shit?

>At the very least OP could have constructively described the phenomena and discuss how to reveal the delusions and enlighten the ignorant

This would require fedoras to set aside their prejudices, to take into account the influence of their emotions and beliefs, and then to actually go and do magick for themselves. However they would prefer to be lazy idiots and just think "magick doesn't real, I know this, because stage magicians told me so – nvm that what they do isn't the same as what you guys are doing, I'm sure you're all just lying and talking shit, and secretly using tricks even though none of your books you guys share and talk about contain any tricks – oh wait I wouldn't even know that either as I don't bother to read the books".

>>82245

>Why are you bitching and moaning in this thread right now instead of "doing something productive" then?

I'm not bitching and moaning, I'm providing criticism to lead this thread into something that itself can be productive

>Why aren't you doing that then and blowing everyone the fuck out with your ability to simply and clearly explain shit?

What would you like explained?

>>82247

Yea pretty much this. To break it down further, they would first need to recognize that their beliefs stem from assumptions and are quite lacking in logic. Of course there is some influence of logic there, but they would need to find the logic they already have and expand from that instead of making jumps of logic and presuming things that have yet to be proven.

Of course if you straight up told them these things they would never listen. The poor chaps would just succumb to their defense mechanisms. It's a thing in psychology where when your beliefs are attacked you start the fight or flight response, as if they are actually in danger.

They simply are not in control of their emotions, let alone have any awareness of what's happening in the subconscious. Without even being aware of it, they are terrified of being proven wrong and behave emotionally.

So, assuming you don't want to just prove them wrong and 'win' an argument, and that you want to actually help them become aware, you would have to engage in discourse while making sure they stay logical. This involves not saying anything that would get them emotional. Really you would have to baby them. More than that though, you would have to dig into them and find the logic that they do know, and expand on them.

Basically

Find what you already agree on and they will be much more likely to agree with you. Talk about the logic behind the agreement and subtly lead the discussion towards some more logic to show whatever you want to reveal to them.

This means you can't tell them to read books, unless they themselves ask you where to learn more. Getting them curious enough to want to learn more requires getting on the same page first of course, as I already explained.

I think there was more that can be said, not coming to mind right now though

>>82266

>I'm not bitching and moaning

nor is anyone else in this thread

>>82266

>What would you like explained?

Wanna explain clearly and succinctly why materialists are fucking retarded and we live in a mental universe where mental laws rule and explain how all of the various occult phenomena are possible? Some kind of very concise text to BTFO out of anyone who believes in a dead universe of matter shaped by random chance.

>>82299

You can't have a 'one size fits all' to convince everyone. If that were possible we would all be following the same religion or shit like that.

The explanation would be different and have to cater to whichever individual you are trying to convince. Get to know them, or speak to them considering any information you have regarding their demographics.

I've already given a sort of guide (or rather a template to create a guide) to hold an ignorant person's hand towards awareness.

Certainly trying to prove a mental universe where mental laws rule and occult phenomena are possible, is just too big a stepping stone considering the average person's knowledge.

>>82299

However there are a couple of good points to create a starting ground towards proving this that I have used many times. They are what is called "the hard problem of consciousness" and the "placebo effect"

Consciousness, the mind, mental phenomena, dreams, specifically 'qualia' and such, are not even close to being explained in science. Sure the normie may say that there could be neural correlates to some mental phenomena but that is apparently different and is much easier to understand that the hard problem. To qoute the wiki article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness

The hard problem is contrasted by "the "easy problems" of explaining the ability to discriminate, integrate information, report mental states, focus attention, etc. Easy problems are easy because all that is required for their solution is to specify a mechanism that can perform the function. That is, their proposed solutions, regardless of how complex or poorly understood they may be, can be entirely consistent with the modern materialistic conception of natural phenomena. Chalmers claims that the problem of experience is distinct from this set, and he argues that the problem of experience will "persist even when the performance of all the relevant functions is explained""

The placebo effect is when the Doctor gives you medication but is actually lying and just gives sugar pills. The patient simply believes the doctor that they will get better, and they do. It's literally because of their beliefs that their health changes, or in other words their beliefs influenced or created their new reality.

And of course Science cannot explain why this happens, just that it does.

>>82321

>Certainly trying to prove a mental universe where mental laws rule and occult phenomena are possible, is just too big a stepping stone considering the average person's knowledge.

Woah that's almost the opposite of what I typed, but it's a lot better than what I was trying to type. Trippy shit

>>82323

Once they are convinced that science doesn't actually prove materialism and that mental phenomena are actually by and large unexplained, you can start talking about astral projection. First talk about lucid dreaming of course, how ebin that is, then talk about how you read about people on the internet that do astral projection, where they seem to dream in real life or rather they leave their bodies and can see things and get 'new information' (so a type of ESP from parapsychology). When they get fully skeptical simply say that you also were skeptical but then you did more research and there were hundreds and hundreds of these people that verified their findings across different forums and such. Here is one such place if they choose to ask

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/validation_thread-t25607.0.html

OH FUGG there's an easy answer to this after all :DDD other than the actual learning of astral projection of course

>>82299

>Wanna explain clearly and succinctly why materialists are fucking retarded and we live in a mental universe where mental laws rule and explain how all of the various occult phenomena are possible? Some kind of very concise text to BTFO out of anyone who believes in a dead universe of matter shaped by random chance.

Just learn astral projection. Get new information, go into their room and tell them what's under their bed or something.

You can't prove anything to a materialist.

You can make them doubt their view but true realization can only come from within.

>>82369

Just demand hat they pay you money. Tell them you are a practitioner of a skilled trade and demand to be well compensated for your time and efforts. If they cannot do that, then they should fuck off.

>>82419

I'm pretty sure he channeled the books. No source on that claim, though.

>>82266

> you want to actually help them become aware, you would have to engage in discourse while making sure they stay logical. This involves not saying anything that would get them emotional. Really you would have to baby them. More than that though, you would have to dig into them and find the logic that they do know, and expand on them.

This is what people don't really understand. In order to "prove magick" you would have to understand their entire life story and there current biases as a result of that structure and compare it to their education.

Then you would have to start by filling in the absolutely massive gaps they have about human history, just to even begin to lay a foundation for understanding. And I'm not talking like Atlantis or Aliens conspiracies. Most people don't understand even how the censored version of western history relates to their situation.

The very basics of proto-indo-european zoroastrian culture study is imo a great place to start.

The reason you have to "find out for yourself" is because it really takes an enormous bank of knowledge before you start seeing the synchronicity everywhere.

Then suddenly you can't stop seeing it.

God, Love, Gnosis, keep searching for truth and it will come together.

every schizo "magician" ever

>hurr durr muh magic muh will controls DA UNEEEVERSE i am god lololololol

fukin retards grow the FUCk up hahahaha fuckin crazy ass crakers

hehe dude i have a pink dragon in my garage but he is invisible, silent, intangible and can travel through dimensions, you can't disprove him because you can't observe him, that's exactly what you sound like when you talk about this "occult" bullshit

>occult elements are suspected because of the effects they have on things we can observe directly, much like how we can't observe exoplanets, but can observe the effects they have on their parent star. In the case of your pink dragon, who doesn't seem to have any influence on anything around him, we don't have any reason to suspect he exists at all

…

Magic isnt real. This is why Christianity is laughed at by 95% of the world. 5% of christians are practicing christians, the rest are LOL XMAS.

You are mentally ill people who wanted to make a meaning for your pointless suffering. If I say ZEUS - I WANT TO URINATE then I piss in a toilet I am not magic the gathering.

Just accept that you are basically a 5 year old and move on. Accept the tough love faggot.

>>81903

Requesting the video of that guy setting fire to a newspaper with his chi

>>81903

Well, science WILL explain later. He's right about that. Magic doesn't defy physics.

>>90396

'Science' is being pretty arrogant in quantum mechanics right now; without getting past this magic is pretty much denied by science. So it might be a while

>>90400

Because there's no strong, probable, easily verifiable and repeatable evidence to back it up.

If we went without evidence to make laws of physics, we'd fuck up. Like we did before.

There's nothing wrong with science and there's nothing wrong with healthy skepticism.

>>81909

It will never be the case where all of society agrees on a belief system, but I've noticed more and more, being a closet mystic myself, pretending to be a materialist atheist, that friends and family are very much aware that there's more to it that it seems, especially after a couple of drinks.

Most people are at least superstitious by nature, simply because once you have lived for long enough, it's very hard not to get glimpses here and there of a wider reality.

But past that point, there is always going to be someone trying to rationalize it away, someone who thinks it's a gnostic kind of reality, someone who thinks it's a different type of materialistic reality, holographic, post-neo-positivist… We are never going to agree on what the true nature of reality is, but I think that's part of the point.

One thing is apparent, and that's that belief plays an important role in psi functioning and the paranormal (however you want to call it). So it's safe to assume we are coming out of one of the less magical periods of human history ever. In that the folks who wrote the lore of Shadowrun got it right. The world cycles in periods of magic and materialism as mainstream belief moves back and forth. I can only imagine the kind of power priests and witches had in the Middle Ages, living in a world where essentially every living soul reinforced you with belief.

^:)

>>82006

What is this anon talking about? I want to see that too. Fnord.

>>82419

Brandon is the edgiest fedora of them all. Jesus Christ he is pure cringe.

Telekinesis usually shuts people up.

If my spoiled racist inbred roommate doesn't die in the next week magic isn't real.

>>81903

>why must I do the hardwork of figuring it out myself

>my favorite part is when wizards just assume you didn't work hard

more like why cant wizards stop being wind bags and just get to the point. I'm not gonna understand by listing to you pontificate. I'll have an idea but that doesn't

substitute for someone to point out where I'm fucking up and why.

>no I won't read Sorcery by J. Finley Hurley, Science of Miracles by Max Freedom Long, or Magical Use of Thoughtforms by Dolores-Ashcroft-Nowicki

problem being all those guys had masters to hold their hand and didn't have a book tossed at their feet with figure it out as the title. Cause you know, a book is just as good as a real life teacher.

>fuck you, use up your vital energy and many hours of your day to personally prove shit to me

a simple "hey you should probably not go that way when you go home" would have been nice. either I don't listen and fuck myself up or I avoid it and thank the wizard.

>heh, a video of you doing magick?

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA WEW! good one

>why won't someone do magick for me? I don't want to put in the effort.

you already used that one.

>oh and lets not forget that I'm an immature, irresponsible, or simply potentially hostile person that would hurt you (like Protagonist) after learning everything

>potentially hostile

If I didn't trust you then why would I teach you magic? Also if that were the case I wouldn't have taught you everything. If a wizard cant distinguish an enemy from a friend then he's not as smart as he thinks.

>>81903

>Mirin Dajo

okay what the fuck?

Complete newfig here, just opened this board for fun.

How?

>>95710

Spot the irony?

>>95710

There's this thing called a gun cid.

Christians at least usually believe magic is possible, albeit most believe it's demonic 😂

>>95893

There have been a number of works on Christian Magick, one of which was read by Pope John Paul II.

>>95853

Ok so there's some "debunking" shit where someone skewers themselves intentionally through very specific areas in the body being careful not to touch nerves. Basically like a body piercing. Creates a car that they hide and they can run something through.

This is no way however actually debunks shit and is a lame "debunk" because Mirin Dajo would pierce himself with swords all over the place, even through organs, and be examined by doctors.

Anyways how is it done? Basically your whole body is a live collection of cells and if you have a super high level of awareness and self-control you can make the open up and close around stuff and basically become invulnerable n' shit. Somewhat related to how you can become invulnerable to fire; which fedoras try to debunk with stuff about people running across coals (any mundane can do this) but fail to explain people who sit in the middle of a shitload of fire for several minutes while their shoes and clothing burns off and they do not die.

>>81903

Leftypol fags and goons in a nutshell.

>>95998

There isn't anything to convince someone else. Naive beginners have a hard time with this. But there is something to it, alas in the form of psychotherapy. It is sleight of mind instead of sleight of hand magic. The results are only "real" to that individual's perception of reality. So in one way it can beneficial to them in how they interact with their world, especially if it brings meaning to them. However, it can also be destructive if they let slip their grip on reality and turn it over to the possibility of something else controlling their destiny. This paranoia we see a lot of, even on here. Maturity and stability of life is important as experiences gained through life naturally are not turned over to the realm of fantasy.

>>81903

"Magic isnt real. You are schizophrenic. Give up everything that you gained in your reality and start at square one and worship me and my ways in my reality! I know you made progress in your world, you feel infinitely more free, and you are using what you learned to make the world a better place, but you should just smack yourself in the head until you are a thoughtless dunce who needs their whole life programmed for them like me! Please just suck like me! Misery needs company! Don't solve misery, come down to hell and do absolutely fucking nothing with your life like me!" - Mundane Faggot

>>96013

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little nigger? I’ll have you know I graduated up to Step 7 of IIH and I’ve been involved in numerous secret works with the White Brotherhood, and I have over 300 confirmed VOLTS. I am trained in advanced loosh farming and I’m the top succubus evoker in the entire astral plane. You are nothing to me but just another semen demon. I will nail you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before in the 10 sephiroths, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with doing that shit to me on 4chon? Think again, turksperg. As we speak I am contacting my top network of familiars I received from high level elementals and your astral location in this holographic universe is being traced right now so you better prepare for the possession, maggot. The possession that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your individuality and sucks you dry of all life force. You're fucking dead, normie. I can be anywhere on the chans at anytime, and I can loosh farm you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s without my wizard hat and nail clipper for blood magick sacrifices. Not only am I extensively trained in astral vampirism, but I have access to the entire array of astral books detailing secret and unheard of works of very serious magick and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the spiritual plane, turk. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little act of cumming on my picture was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking meat stick and conserved that loosh. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn degenerate. I will farm you so hard you will be sucked up dry by it. You’re fucking dead, thanks for the loosh, mundane.

So how do I cast fireballs?

>>96029

Eat Mexican.

>>96024

this was fun to read. I liked the original. I even first posted the original that this is a version of.

>>91057

Anyone else see "fnord" here?

>>98050

"Carrie Fisher is doing well. She made a bunch of great life decisions, and that is why Disney will never collect that $50,000,000 insurance payment. She will probably life forever, and all those Bar and Bats Mitsvahs will never get paid for. Jews are fucking retarded. And if she does die it will be insurance fraud and she and Disney will split the 50 million and she will retire on some island." - Harrison Fjord

>>98052

>>>98050

Wow Jared Kucksner needs to go bang his tranny wife IVAN and stop editing my posts. I didn't have any typos. Fucking jew faggot.

>>98050

"Carrie Fisher is doing very well. She made a bunch of great life decisions, and that is why Disney will never collect that $50,000,000 insurance payment. She will probably live forever, and all those Bar and Bats Mitsvahs will never get paid for. Jews are fucking retarded. And if she does die it will be insurance fraud and she and Disney will split the 50 million and she will retire on some island." - Harrison Fnord

Now if you'd please excuse me, I'm gonna go eat a plain pizza. I don't need any Ivan Trump nipples on it, and I don't need any Jared Kucksner tiny sausage either. It's just a cheese pizza, and I'm not talking P*dest* cheese pizza, I'm talking about bread, sauce, cheese, and light sprinkles of various seasonings. Holy fuck thanks for ruining the English language Hillary!

>>98055

If that post doesn't make you laugh you've been to Epstein Island and you need to reevaluate your decision to not blow your fucking brains out.

>>98056

It's not funny because Ivanka and Kushner have nothing to do with any of that shit

>>98056

It's not funny because Ivanka and Kushner have nothing to do with any of that shit

>>98056

It's not funny because Ivanka and Kushner have nothing to do with any of that shit

thank you

>>98715

Are you trying to say that modern science explains all phenomena or what?

What the hell do LEDs have to do with anything?

>'Science' is being pretty arrogant in quantum mechanics right now; without getting past this magic is pretty much denied by science. So it might be a while

I made this claim and I stand by it, and am willing to support it with however much logic you delusional faggots demand

>>98715

>Why don't we ever see levitating marsupials?

…because their brains are fucking SMOOTH and their nervous systems inferior. They're retarded low-energy animals.

>>98940

No it's because they have never seen television or watched movies or read books or listened to those who stimulated the imagination and feed their MINDS the CONCEPTUAL NUTRIENTS required to aspire to great creative accomplishment. Totally a result of nurture, rather than nature.

>>107139

*tips*

What if he can explain exactly why anything happens though?

What if I could look into your body, see what sickness is there, tell you exactly the cause of it, and exactly the solution for it, and exactly what happens if you ignore my advice, and everything plays out exactly as I said it would for you?

>>107271

then you could still be making a false claim whose prediction turned out lucky for you via coincidence

>>107271

What if I could LARP on /fringe/ about powers I don't actually have?

>>107971

That's literally the point of this board.

…if magic existed, couldn't you just magic me into believing in it?

>>107972

Unfortunately, it is.

Oh man. You guys are priceless. You babble about noticing the thought of others. People react to thinking I think about them the way they react to the thought of God thinking about them. If telepathy is real I owe the world some apologies. I'm not thinking your thoughts. You're thinking mine.

d

>>115757

Hogwarts is full of preppy ivy-league tryhards anyways. Limey bastards.

>>82354

that would only work if you've already gotten them to loosen the grip on their fedora.

Skepticism isnt about proving people wrong. thats what edgy kids that read Dawkins and Sagan think.

I'm a Skeptic because I want to find the true nature of things and see through deception. If magick is truly real, I would want to have sure proof that it's real before I start putting my energy into it.

Stop being so self conscious that you think anyone that thinks differently from you is personally attacking you. I know theres some secret bullshit that stops you from just telling me how to do it, but honestly I just want to know if it's real or not first.

Its hard to tell on the internet because most of it are just lies or people who convinced themselves through poorly constructed logic that magic is real and they just dick tease people on /fringe/ because its the only thing that gives their life a semblance of control.

Don't treat skeptics as adversaries, they are a lot like you

(if youre telling the truth) they just are curious and want to learn most of the time.

>>116487

Before you read my tl;dr posts, let me put magic in materialist terms: Magic is a controlled placebo, it's playing pretend until that pretending has an effect upon the experience of the world and its elements. If you're a hard materialist, it's best to assume that it's all a bunch of horseshit and we're just adults with mental problems.

Now that that's out of the way, your post deserves an answer by an actual scientist, which I can provide. To lend some background so that you have some idea of my familiarity with the hard sciences, the scientific method, and the philosophy of science, I have a dual degree in biochemistry and pre-medicine from a public state university, granted within the last five years. I currently work as a research scientist involved in identifying foodborne pathogens. This is no appeal to authority, only an indicator to you that I am not a stranger to STEM fields when I respond here.

>If magick is truly real, I would want to have sure proof that it's real before I start putting my energy into it.

That's not the case. Unless you are the first human in history to do so, you most certainly do not base your interests and investments of your time and energy on the objective truth value of that thing. You base your value off of the personal incentives they provide to you.

Science being 'real' simply cannot be your primary motivator because you don't actually know whether or not any particular datum you classify as scientific is objectively true. You, I am quite certain, do not base your ideas about how the universe is structured on only the experiments which you can independently verify, and if you do, boy you must be an exceptionally busy person to have experimentally proven everything up to the point of being able to claim that skepticism is worth your time. People's motivations have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not things are empirically correct, and everything to do with whether or not the experiences of those interests hold incentives.

>I'm a Skeptic because I want to find the true nature of things and see through deception.

Your motivation is that you want your investment of time and energy to pay off decently, and you don't want to be made a fool of or taken advantage of, because that's embarrassing and costly. The "true nature of things" has nothing to do with it, because even scientifically, nobody has a clue what that is. If I tell you that an electron cloud orbits around the atomic nuclei, which is made up of protons and neutrons, does that suddenly give you insight into the true nature of an atom? You may have an idea that this is true because you've heard it before and it fits practically well into the scientific model you're familiar with, but you'd have to take someone else's word for it, and any insight which you would feel about this would be based on hearsay. What is the "true nature" of atoms? Does anyone have any idea? I can tell you things all day about covalent and ionic bonding, does that suddenly give you insight as to how your body doesn't just randomly fly apart into a million little disconnected pieces? No, absolutely not, and furthermore, your body wasn't flying apart even before you learned about bonding.

My point is that scientific truths are objective because it maintains the narrative of science for that to be true. Taken far enough, the chaining of burdens of proof always runs up against the problem that you must in some way take all these things on faith. They are true only to the extent that they have practical, workable value as truths. For all the awards science pins upon itself about how the scientific method is great at refining data and models to fit the facts, the facts themselves are messy and imprecise no matter how far down you go. With the advent of quantum physics, this is taken to extremes so absurd that they make the average wizard look downright unimaginative!

>>116487

>I know theres some secret bullshit that stops you from just telling me how to do it

That has never been the case, it's just that your idea of how magic works has no relation to how magic actually works. There are free resources on how to carry out magical acts, but you don't actually perform them because you're waiting to see if they work, but the only proof of them working is if they fit within your idea of what magic is, and if your idea of magic is stuff that's impossible, then magic is never possible. The moment you are given material proof of a thing which is practically workable, you then attribute it to science, that's what science has been doing since it 'broke off' from magic. You've set up conditions such that it is impossible to prove magic. Science just plays word games when it discovers magic. Google "quantum pseudo-telepathy" and then come back and try to tell me that it fits in any way, shape, or form with either classical physics or your normal experience.

Why is quantum pseudo-telepathy (just as an example) not called magic? Because at least two people in lab coats with degrees from universities that other people (their bosses) know the names of set up a series of objects in relation to a series of thoughts they had and decided to act upon, and then other people looked at those objects and their interactions and heard about the various thoughts those people in lab coats had, and those other people had thoughts of their own in turn that went along the lines of "wow, what a result but since their framework matches ours and the methodology is what we want, I guess that's right!" That's why it's called science. If you told some average person out on the street the gist of quantum pseudo-telepathy, they'd call that magic and wouldn't believe it, and yet if it has the veneer of peer-reviewed studies, suddenly, voila! It has all the versimilitude they need to buy it!

Magic is a catch-all term for what happens when you exert some conscious control over your various qualia. Whether or not this is imagined, the experience itself is the real thing. It is in fact the only thing you know, just experience, and even that, you may not be sure of. If other people seem to not be working based on your same experiences, that's because yours and theirs are not the same (interptetation being a considerable part of experience itself). With all due respect to the sciences, which I am still quite happily a part of, most magic is the realm of the soft sciences. Stating that magic doesn't exist is like stating that an abstract painting doesn't exist because it's just pigment and a binder, or that the art doesn't exist because you can't by hand replicate that result with the same ease as the artist. Magic's claims about reality are no more shocking than those of Greek solipsists.

>>81903

But you missed the point of fringe, which is you don't fucking tell anyone about it.

That's kind of how magic is influenced and if you not only have other dense people influencing YOU but your magic development too then you fucked up.