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File: 10b8325d70eec3f⋯.png (19.25 KB, 483x316, 483:316, 1405308085355.png)

 No.83020

>This explains the attraction of drugs – particularly psychedelics – for intelligent people. They have an intuition that if a 'peak experience' could be summoned at will, or maintained for half an hour, it would quickly become possible to learn to recreate it without drugs. There is a fallacy here. Most drugs work by reducing the efficiency of the nervous system, inducing unusual states of consciousness at the expense of the mind's power to concentrate and learn. You only have to try to memorise a short list of foreign words when you are slightly drunk to realise this. The mind is usually absorbent, like blotting paper; when you are under the influence of alcohol, it turns into a sheet of glossy paper with no power to absorb.

>Drugs work by temporarily paralysing certain levels of the mind, like a local anaesthetic, thereby reducing its energy consumption. Worse still, they inhibit 'feedback effects.' When Lady Chatterley feels the park surging beneath her feet like the sea, this is a feedback effect of her intense concentration on her sexual activities: an ecstatic 100 per cent concentration that pumps up enormous subconscious energies from her depths. It is these energies that continue to surge and spread as she returns home. The Kabbalah describes the creation of the world as being a total concentration of energy into a single luminous point. (Captain Shotover's 'seventh degree of concentration' in Shaw's Heartbreak House is related to it.) All drugs, without exception, produce the reverse of concentration, a relaxation of the mind. In the case of the psychedelics, the nervous system is 'short-circuited,' so that nervous impulses cease to follow their own track, and spread sideways, creating a series of 'feelings'; it is like opening the lid of a grand piano and running your fingers over its strings, producing an effect like a harp. But these 'feelings' have nothing to do with the clear focussing upon reality achieved by the whiskey priest.

>Drugs, then, are the worst possible way of attempting to achieve 'contemplative objectivity.' They increase the mind's tendency to accept its own passivity instead of fighting against it. But any of the more normal 'peak experiences' are an ideal starting point. Sexual intensity is one of the most powerful, since it produces, in effect, a momentary burst of the Easter bells insight, a flash of the power which is a normal human potentiality. This was recognised in India and Tibet by the Tantric yogis, who deliberately utilised sexual ecstasy to create new habit patterns of intensity (for that is what it amounts to). In more recent years a German ironmaster named Karl Kellner was initiated into Tantric yoga in India, and founded the Ordo Templi Orientis (Order of Oriental Templars) on his return to Germany in 1902. This order was founded entirely upon the 'secret' that sexual ecstasy can be used by human beings as a stairway to new levels of power.

 No.83031

>correlation is not causation, and other logical fallacies

>disinfo pls leave


 No.83087

dmt isnt a drug


 No.83350

>>83020

Everything that exists, is psychoactive. By definition.


 No.83359

Actually a good point and I agree. But what about hormesis? In small extremely infrequent doses the mind could become more resistant.


 No.83363

>>83020

>>Drugs work by temporarily paralysing certain levels of the mind, like a local anaesthetic

Traditional psychedelics don't do this, and brain scans have shown the brain is more active while under the influence, and parts of the brain that don't communicate communicate.

Maybe heroin and weed, but not psychs.


 No.83365

In my short 5 years of spiritual and esoteric bullshit, drugs are the one thing that really stood out to me besides the general spirit/thoughtform encounters. It always opened up pathways in my mind I hadn't been using, and then they stayed open. Just the fact that I experienced something higher than the physical world carved those feelings into my mind. Empathy and energywork became commonplace in my life from my psychedelic and dissociative exploration.

Drugs aren't for everyone though. Your mindset really affects what you get out of the experience. Most people on this board look down of drugs so much it warps the trip and reduces the potential. The funny thing is is that we alter our brain chemistry everyday through our mood, diet, social interaction, etc. The external to internal energy transfer of consciousness through a physical medium is an extraordinary concept in itself, and an even greater tool when utilized by the right mind. I don't advocate drug abuse though. Anyone should use caution and stay observant of their mental and physical health and research the substances they use before even ingesting them. Its only common sense. Then its up to each individual to choose which realms they want to visit or what states to induce, some with benefits and others with heavy costs. Utilize your tools scrubs.


 No.83373

>>83365

>Just the fact that I experienced something higher than the physical world carved those feelings into my mind. >Drugs aren't for everyone though. Your mindset really affects what you get out of the experience.

Both of these points is so ridiculously important. Great post over all

Btw guys this thread got derailed and almost entirely ended up being about drugs even though OP was never about drugs lol, check it out for some interesting stuff please bump it if you got something to say, I think it's a much more fringe related thread then half the shit on the first page

>>82326


 No.83378

drugs can help in the process of achieving Inedia

OP is clearly shitposting since he mentions Inedia without explaining it

we don't already have an Inedia thread do we?


 No.83379

Just another alt-right shill thread, nothing to see here


 No.83453

>>83379

says the shill


 No.83471

>>83020

> Most drugs work by reducing the efficiency of the nervous system

"efficiency" is a relative term decided by social norms and not a valid qualifier

this is also factually incorrect in regards to "most" drugs, but is generally true for alcohol which has a unique method of action completely dissimilar to other psychoactive chemicals

>>83020

> unusual states of consciousness

again this is subject to interpretation by social norms. many cultures use many different types of drugs for many different reasons.

>Drugs work by temporarily paralysing certain levels of the mind, like a local anaesthetic,

this is factually incorrect.

"drugs" is not a comprehensive catagory and as noted above, more often than not drugs alter the concentrations of neurotransmitters and the rate of diffusion between cells. In psychedelics this is always done by INCREASING synaptic activity.

>intense concentration on her sexual activities

what? this is complete speculation and dependent on the individual and the drug in question

>reverse of concentration, a relaxation of the mind

again this is exactly the opposite of how psychedelics work, classical psychedelics such as LSD cause increased activation of the 5-HT2A receptor. If we are making baseless conjectures this level of perception is "more" information so its actual more real than sober reality. Its analogous to upping your refresh rate on your TV, except reality doesn't have a hardware limit because the graphics card is the universe.

>>83020

>All drugs, without exception, product…a relaxation of the mind

yeah man that meth makes me so relaxed, adrenaline and dopamine surges, *yawn* night night

>Drugs, then, are the worst possible way of attempting to achieve 'contemplative objectivity.'

wrong, given scientific data, not doing drugs is limiting your possible perceptions of reality. fractal hallucinations are based on transcribed points of reality and are not independent of external input.

>>83020

>>83020

>>83020

wrong wrong wrong

stop


 No.83477

>>83471

how can something be subjective and also be factually incorrect?

everything he said could be true in some cases, and all your responses are based on your subjective interpretation of what he says and also of how chemicals work

OP isn't right or wrong in the objective sense. what he says could be true for some people and false for others.

no need to be so triggered lol


 No.83514

File: f1ff936cff7bde4⋯.jpg (4.22 MB, 2700x2700, 1:1, Drug_Chart_Color.jpg)

>>83477

>he says could be true for some people and false for others.

>>83471 (You)

>many cultures use many different types of drugs for many different reasons.

>this is complete speculation and dependent on the individual and the drug in question

im not conflating the two, OP is

there are two factors about drugs, the physical effects, and the psychological

in the first, OP states incorrect facts about the physical effects of "drugs" and for the second he makes a subjective negative judgements supporting normie social stigma, which is also based on false assumptions about the physical effects of psychoactive substances. This kind of rhetoric is why there is a drug war, yet humans have been using plants to alter their consciousness since before we invented language.

im triggered because this kind of disinfo can get people killed


 No.83516

>>83514

But that's your subjective interpretation of how drugs work. Everyone has different physical effects from the exact same drugs. I'm sure there are people out there that felt relaxed on meth. Getting work done can be relaxing

>This kind of rhetoric is why there is a drug war

Yes, forcing your own interpretation is how rhetorics are made, and that's what you're doing

>im triggered because this kind of disinfo can get people killed

cry more bitch


 No.83517

>>83514

and salvia is definitely a delirium get that disinfo picture out of here


 No.83522

>>83517

>delirium

Never tried Salvia div huh? Its like being the main character in spirited away.

Most certainly hallucinogenic.


 No.83535

>>83522

Yes I actually have. it was fucking crazy like my soul bounced around the room fractals on the wall multiple reality ominous predestination flipbook shit culminating with what felt like a hammer hit my head I should do it again some time, once every 5 years is probably good

also a lower dose made the music show up on the wall which resulted in a mario sidescroller

too little salvia = 2d. too much = 5d


 No.83536

I never said it wasn't hallucinogenic, but I said it was definitely a delirium

also literally all delirium drugs also cause hallucinations, so instead of saying deliriums are hallucinogenic it's better to keep the categories separate


 No.83537

>>83536

The picture does a good job of showing this too, how the deliriant circle is entirely in hallucinogenic

but deliriants are fucked up and not putting salvia in there can lead to make someone think that it's normal like shrooms (that's not saying much, but it's way more mind bending than shrooms. shrooms fucks you up on a more abstract manner and you do still have enough control for it to not be considered a deliriant for one thing)


 No.83538

>>83535

Fair enough, you got the gist of it.


 No.83551

File: dafd83dcf677720⋯.png (26.17 KB, 624x336, 13:7, qIfhwMG.png)

File: b3a91e317f2a647⋯.png (34.41 KB, 943x674, 943:674, stimtable.png)

File: 4016ab31bbf76c5⋯.gif (81.74 KB, 800x653, 800:653, drugclassification_chart.gif)

File: a6aa3f62ac84cd0⋯.png (222.92 KB, 3800x1600, 19:8, 2pointo.png)

>>83516

>(You)

>But that's your subjective interpretation

> I'm sure there are people feel relaxed on meth

no thats their subjective interpretation

the fact part is that methamphetamines physical effects are an increase in adrenaline and dopamine release, which physically defines it as a stimulant, that can make you FEEL how ever the fuck you want but that doesn't change what it does physically, your *interpretation* of that through *feelings* is subjective.

here is a list of things that are actually physical, the first chart shows receptor affinity for common psychedelics, these are physical effects that are the same in every animal that has these receptors.

the second is a table of common stimulants

from this table we can see the actual physical effects that will definitely happen in all animals that have these receptors and take this drug.

>>83517

it is somewhat delirious but its different than regular deliriants. At high doses its definitely disassociation even after you land. perhaps you like the placement of chart 3 better, after all these charts are made by people and are not perfect.

careful what you mix chart #4, stay safe

https://www.erowid.org/

https://tripsit.me/

>>83477

>>83516

>subjective

you might enjoy this

https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Subjective_effect_index


 No.83572

>>83514

>>83551

Could you maybe tell me, dear anon, about the relationship between opiates and DXM? They are both in the same category "Narcotic Analgesics" and I've heard that DXM also affects (although very poorly) kappa opioid receptors, but the experience after taking opiates and DXM is very dissimilar, although I've never took DXM for tripping so I don't have any first hand experience.

DXM also lowers the tolerance for opiates, even in small doses and I can attest to that. Do you know anything about the mechanism of this?

Also, doesn't DXM's dissociative effects have something to do with serotonin? Do opiates affect serotonin too? For some time I was taking fluoxetine + mirtazapine (can't remember dosage) and also was using codeine (450-600mg per day) and had some pretty fucked up experiences which I self-diagnosed as a light serotonin syndrome, is it possible or is it total bullshit?


 No.83582

File: 7921fd95f63419f⋯.jpg (32.25 KB, 611x675, 611:675, 725875-fig2.jpg)

>>83572

>A desensitization on the basis of receptor decoupling, receptor internalization and increased alternative coupling to stimulatory G-proteins have been demonstrated. However, a functional antagonism of the opioid effects seems to be clinically most important, mediated by the activation of NMDA receptors, up-regulation of adenylyl cyclase and nitric oxide synthase. Drugs blocking these mechanisms are the most promising option in the treatment of tolerance. Namely, alpha2-adrenoreceptor agonists such as clonidine and NMDA antagonists such as ketamine or dextromethorphan have been used to minimize tolerance development during opioid treatment.

>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15124977

DXM is primarily an NMDA receptor antagonist and this is why it is dissociative.

Theres a lot of strange mythology about DXM online and plateau sigma, related to its sigma receptor effects. I don't know much for sure because its not something thats well studied or understood due to legal issues.

But there is an interesting correlation with astral projection experiences and sigma drugs, ie: DMT, Salvia, Ketamine, Ibogaine, DXM, Herion which have unique myths about hyperspace, k-hole, nodding etc. I believe the sigma receptor has something to do with this experience.

DXM is a non selective SSRI and is known to cause serotonin syndrome in combination with Prozac(fluoxetine)

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-6997/prozac-oral/details/list-interaction-details/dmid-2407/dmtitle-fluoxetine-paroxetine-dextromethorphan-and-quinidine/intrtype-drug

I don't think theres any reason codeine would cause SS, mixing those would just make you more tired than average

the experience on DXM is not similar to opiates because the majority of the physical effects are different, because the primary action of opiates is on the kappa, but you might notice they have the same three ring skeleton, because of this and the principle of diffusion, some percent of the time they will just so happen to land in that receptor anyway, especially if there is overflow(you take a lot), but since DXM fits much much better in other receptors it will mostly go there. the speculation about sigma plateau is that sufficient redosing causes the plasma level of metabolized DXO across the blood brain barrier to overload these receptors and the overflow activates maximum sigma dissociation linking (you) into the astral network, they also say polisterix(delysm) slower metabolism helps achieve this.

interestingly the reason salvia often is accompanied by a dysphoria and "fear of impending doom" is because it is an opiate agonist, having the inverse of opiate euphoria, though some people can enjoy that sensation.

>Dextromethorphan's hallucinogenic and dissociative effects can be attributed largely to dextrorphan (DXO), a metabolite produced when dextromethorphan is metabolized by the body.

>Dextromethorphan's euphoric effects have sometimes been attributed to an increase in dopamine levels, since such an increase generally correlates with pleasurable responses to drug. At high doses, dextromethorphan is classified as a dissociative general anesthetic and hallucinogen, similar to the controlled substances ketamine and phencyclidine (PCP). Also like those drugs, dextromethorphan is an NMDA receptor antagonist.

I actually have no idea for sure why DXM makes you hallucinate, but in double blinds people mistake it for mushrooms

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3652430/

Its a very fuzzy subject but i think the salvia-dmt-opiate link is probably really important, its worth noting though that DXM is rather dangerous and can cause seizures if you use it habitually or mix it with other drugs. Ketamine is much safer for mixing and takes nearly an ounce to overdose, but habitual use also ends with kidney problems. I also heard strange things about taking DXM for amphetamine tolerance. Something about dopamine and nueroprotection. The interesting thing about that is how dopamine is related to Parkinson's, which is why meth addicts get shakes. These inter-related effects are rarely studied because its not financially viable for the pharmaceutical industry which relies on reductive logic: treat symptoms, collect insurance, ignore cause.

http://www.dextroverse.org/

https://erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_faq.shtml

https://erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_physiological.shtml#toc.9

https://erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_neuropharm.shtml#toc.10.2

http://www.dextroverse.org/faqs/4-4-what-is-dextrorphan-dxo/


 No.83584

>>83582

I would regularly get OBEs from DXM when I had a low tolerance


 No.83593

>>83584

me too, but why does NMDA inhibition causes hallucinations that are indisinguishable from 5-HT2a hallucinations? its very strange

http://derekwmeyer.blogspot.com/p/drug-science.html

this site has a lot of information about how opiates and DXM work, its very thorough



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