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File: 1419025362298.gif (1.16 MB, 1600x1200, 4:3, shiva.gif)

 No.13687

Some of us have started to practise yoga since a little time ago, in addition to our magickal path.

>>13291
>>13292
>>13293

I've found a short text that explains key differences between the -strict- Yogi that doesn't train siddhis and the Magician, in relation to their ultimate goals. Both of them pursue and achieve god-realization, but even when both have risen up to god-counsciousness, they don't end up the same way, after having evolved in a different manner.

The text (quoted from Fra. Veos):

Yoga is suited for humanity in general. All human beings are capable of achieving Self-Realization with one of the many types of Yoga. The yogi perfects the microcosm and is concerned only with Realizing God and helping the fellow man to do the same. However, a self-Realized Yogi may not have even one Siddhi or occult ability. Of all the people in the world suitable for the practice of yoga, maybe 5% are suitable for the practice of magic. Most magicians have forgotten how to have Self-realization and its importance in practical magic, so they become one-sided sorcerers. A person pursuing God may become amazed with the complexity of the universe, and thus wish to develop the appropriate tools (astral projection, mastery of the elements, clairvoyance, clairaudience, etc.) to study it and learn its great mysteries. A God-Realized Yogi will have the consciousness of God and some Siddhis, but a God-Realized Magician will actually have the creative power of God in all spheres and even be worshiped as such by the various spiritual entities. A Yogi who reaches God-Realization is in constant bliss and is liberated from the world and can stop his Sadhana. A God-Realized magician knows he has only just begun his training, and will continue to develop all of the spiritual abiltiies until he completely rules all of the universes and masters the 22 tarot cards or pages in the book of Thoth (of which Bardon's books are the first 3).

Now there are generally differences of view between yogis and magicians, and that is because a Yogi considers a magician to be wasting his time developing siddhis instead of just following God, and the magician considers the Yogi as following an unbalanced system of development. There should really be harmony of both. A Yogi should also strive to perfect his control and understanding of the universe, and a magician should strive to expand and lift the consciousness so that he pursues and uses the occult faculties under the Divine Guidance of Self-realization. In this way the magician will not go astray.

So then once again, for most people Yoga is the way. For some people, magic is the way, but magic should be pursued under the illuminated consciousness of constant yoga practice. So then everyone can practice yoga safely and with benefit, but many magicians forget about consciousness and become debased sorcerers. A magician without self-realization is not a magician at all. He is a sorcerer. A sorcerer is a human, a magician is a God.

 No.13688

Magic is not a necessity, Yoga is. The Occult powers and faculties are not near as important as Self-realization. They can be trained by those with a definite will power alongside the evolution of consciousness, but the latter always takes the prize. Bardon's IIH is more akin to Tantric Yoga than traditional western occultism.

Bardon hints that many of the brothers in the White Brotherhood started out as Yogis or saints who had achieved self-realization, and then only later were they admitted to the Divine Arcana. It can be done either way: A Yogi can become a magician or vice versa. It matters little as long as ultimately the soul reaches liberation, and yoga is the only means for that. By yoga, I refer to system which "Yoga" (yokes or unites) the mind to God's consciousness. The last 2 steps of IIH are Yoga, the first 8 are more or less magic. In truth, a magician should begin his path with yoga and end it in Yoga. There are always higher levels of consciousness to be attained. Even shiva, the god of Magic, still meditates in perpetual samadhi. Some sects believe it is because he is still trying to attain something even higher. Yoga brings real peace. Magic should be done by those who have the right composition for it, and the proper spiritual grounding. Yoga only leads to joy, while magic can very easily lead to a life of sorrow and pain.

Until the astral body is made immortal by certain alchemical and magical practices, it will always have to be retrained in every new life. If the soul has reached a certain level of maturity it will retrain itself very quickly, but nontheless must still retrain. The consciousness is different. Thus the merits achieved through Yoga will retain across all lifes and will never fall back. The merits attained in magic are temporal, as the universe which they act in is temporal and illusory. Most magicians will not retain their hard earned powers into the next life. All Yogis will retain their consciousness. A reincarnated magician may retain a glimpse of some past life abilities, but will need to retrain. Even a yogi will have to retain a little to wipe the dirt off the consciousness from descending through maya into a physical shell. Still, magic should be practiced by those able to affirm the position of man in the universe and experience its freedom.

Ultimately the choice is up to you. No matter what, you should do Yoga. If then you decide to practice magic then there is a path of much trial and hardship in front of you, mixed with more temptation, but the fruits are indescribable. Work hard to achieve liberation, and then train hard with the newly liberated consciousness to expand your abilty.

 No.13695

Very interesting, thank you for sharing. Should it be noted that most forms of Yoga are not suitable for most, with Bhakti being the Yoga suited for 90% of moderns?

I have recently begun trying the suggested practices laid out in The Practice of Yoga and have been frequently visiting a Bhakti Yoga temple for a few months now and learning about it

http://thedivinescience.org/
This seems interesting. Enrollment for new classes begins in January it says.

 No.13699

>>13695
I am planning to apply, it's a genuine mystery school from what I've seen. There is a monthly fee after the probationer class, though.

 No.13708

>>13699
As am I. Seems like it will fill up pretty quickly, but will be multiple opportunities to apply throughout the year.

 No.13710

Didn't this "Frater Veos" guy write all his posts on the Veritas forums and that Bardon commentary when he was like 16?

I think it's probably wise to take that into consideration when you read anything he wrote about magic and ruling universes and the rest.

 No.13869

>>13687
>god-realization

What are some signs of this?

It is indescribable, thus I don't know if it has been reached or not.

Is it coupled with the shedding of the Ego?

Was it when I came to know I was a piece of the whole?

A manifestation of the higher?

When I came to know I was but a speck yet infinite?

 No.13993

>>13869

My guess is none of us here probably reached it. I think it takes years of hard work, with a teacher if possible.

 No.14024

>>13869
It's also called: Cosmic-counsciousness, Henosis, Nirvikalpa/Sahaja Samadhi, etc…

It's no mere intellectual understanding. It's the supreme spiritual achievement. Your counsciousness unites with god's counsciousness. You stop being a focal point inside the all, instead, you become counscious of everything that exists, at the same time. Your counsciousness permeates every corner of the universe inside-out.
The whole universe becomes an aspect of yourself instead of yourself being an aspect of the universe.

The complete shedding of the so called Ego (I personally prefer another definition of Ego), happens way before god-realization is reached. It happens when you become self-realized, aka Gnosis, Egohood… That's when you unite with your own spirit or atman, leaving personality behind. Once that has been -truly- achieved, you become aware of everything your spirit is aware. Past lives, higher planes, the corresponding higher counsciousness of these planes…

Self-realization is a VERY high achievement, but it still has yet to blossom into god-realization. Atman has to expand and merge with Brahman. The fruit of magick starts to truly mature and develop with great speeds after the self-realization of the Magician.

>>13993

(Please, don't take my estimates very seriously.)
Self-realization: Between 15-30 years of hard work for most people (Right path, living, practice and guidance.)
10-15 Years for very spiritually mature people. A good guru helps.

God-realization: Jesus, if I only could estimate this…

 No.14033

>>14024
I imagine 10-15 years is a proper estimation if one is to practice two hours a day IIH, which is, in essence, yoga for the Western audiences. And, of course, it takes time to adopt a virtuous behavior.

Of course, I do not want to tell everyone that they have to practice "for this long"… nay, we have to remember that it is all individual, some take longer while others are more hasty on their feet. It doesn't matter in the end.

So yes, I feel we shouldn't put strict estimations on this subject, but it may help to grasp the the idea behind this all; spiritual growth takes time, and though it may feel like a lot of work, we have to remember that there is nothing higher than such growth; it is most vital, most important.

And it doesn't stop one from practicing very potent magic even if he hasn't attained Nirvikalpa Samadhi yet; it could also be that one could use magic to achieve such a self-realized state, but I hesitate to go further, not having true knowledge on the subject, for now.

 No.14068

>>14024
How does one gauge their spiritual maturity? What are the signs that one is spiritually "talented" so to speak? Referring to the MBTI Type theory, I imagine it'd be the INxJs with the spiritual "talents" so this would be roughly 4-7% of the world population.

 No.14076

>>14068

According to MBTI I am INFJ.

I think it helps because it's easier for me to believe in bullshit (aka suspend disbelief) and look at things from multiple perspectives at the same time and therefore it was easier to accept the magic paradigm and faithfully stick with it.

So yeah, I believe my personality type definitely has its advantages, it's not only about being an outcast.
Plato apparently had this personality.
And Plato is the shit. I want to be like him someday.

 No.14077

>>14068

Also, do not assume INxJ = spiritual.
Most of the time it will be INxJ = fedora. Hardcore fedora. Especially INTJs.

The level of maturity depends on the individual and his ability to recognize his flaws and accept them and build on them, thus growing, et cetera.

 No.14090

>>14024

I have experienced this "God consciousness" to be something more of like a river slowly eroding away at the dirt and expanding/growing in size over time, or like an internet connection being upgraded… That moreso than something which happens overnight one night after 50 years of meditating.

 No.14092

>>14076
Nice. ENFP here. Dat natural energy feeling and percieving tho

 No.14098

>>14077
I'm INTJ and a former hardcore fedora.
The INTJ "why are we so superior to everyone else" circlejerks you see on places like Reddit are extremely ego-reinforcing and its easy for narcissists to get drawn into that.
Even so, a capacity for abstract thought is certainly an asset in metaphysical matters.

 No.14099

>>14077
I would never assume any blanket statement like that because the theory itself was always meant to be a general description of the masses and so–much like statistics–you cannot apply these mass-descriptions to the individual.

>INFJs are outcasts
What? I mean, yeah, I expect INFJs to feel lonely due to their unique interpretation of reality and the inability to share their interpretation with another likeminded individual however my understanding of INFJs is that they have a very keen ability to understand human behaviour. They'll look at what you're wearing and how you're behaving and begin to envision what kind of life you lived up until this point. What this means is if an INFJ needed to blend in, they could do so with ease. Now of course, INFJs value authenticity above all and can "detect" how authentic a person is so I expect them to feel a deep revulsion towards the idea of living your life behind a mask however I still expect it to be fully within their capabilities. I thought that this is how INFJs live–behind masks.

An INFP outcast makes far more sense.(USER WAS CAUGHT WITHOUT A FLAG AND DISAPPEARED)

 No.14102

>>14099
>>14099
>An INFP outcast makes far more sense.

INFP is the pussy SJW male/perfect girl personality type. The outcast type is INTP, as most of us are completely useless meanderers and dilletantes who live in our own heads.(NAUGHTY USER WITH NO FLAG!)

 No.14142

>>14099
im INFP/TP, can you elaborate more on the last part?(USER FORGOT HIS FLAG!)

 No.14175

>all these 4 letter personality things

I never read about that shit, never did any tests, don't know what label would even be applied for me, doubt anything could stick too more than temporarily due to how much I can reprogram my mind.

 No.14178

>>14175
Yes, and I feel that labeling yourself with "personality letters" is not useful; personality is not the Real Self, it's all temporary.

 No.14180

>>14099
What? I mean, yeah, I expect INFJs to feel lonely due to their unique interpretation of reality and the inability to share their interpretation with another likeminded individual however my understanding of INFJs is that they have a very keen ability to understand human behaviour. They'll look at what you're wearing and how you're behaving and begin to envision what kind of life you lived up until this point. What this means is if an INFJ needed to blend in, they could do so with ease. Now of course, INFJs value authenticity above all and can "detect" how authentic a person is so I expect them to feel a deep revulsion towards the idea of living your life behind a mask however I still expect it to be fully within their capabilities. I thought that this is how INFJs live–behind masks.

You are right, I am not a literal outcast, but I am alone in my ideas about the world.
I do have friends and I enjoy their company, I can perfectly blend in, but in the end, everyone is still "mundane", you see?
The only non-mundane people I know are you /fringe/ people.

 No.14181

>>14180

I missed a meme arrow there >silly me

 No.14243

File: 1419182295052.png (368.07 KB, 400x708, 100:177, 1338761284161.png)

>>14142
It's impossible to switch between INTP and INFP because those are completely different function stacks. I think this is the best way to clarify as to whether or not you're an INTP:
http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html
This is an INTP-approved analysis. If you don't resonate with it, you may be something else.

In any case, the reason why an outcasted-INFP makes more sense than an outcasted-INFJ is because INFPs are idealists. Unlike the INFJ who intends to find some reasonable, practical, realistic way to implement these abstract ideals as closely as possible, the INFP will typically withdraw from reality and instead express their ideals through fantasy. The INFP is more concerned with the ideal itself rather than its implementation and when we do see INFPs attempt implementation, what tends to also be seen is a refusal to consider any evidence that contradicts their established beliefs (SJWs). That's how I see them. That basically, much like how the INTP is concerned with theory for the sake of theory and enjoys exploring the logical implications of a set of logical axioms, the INFP is concerned with morals for the sake of morals and enjoys exploring the moral implications of a set of moral axioms.
In conclusion: I see INFPs as highly principled individuals who would rather take their principles with them to the grave than risk allowing any distortion. They're more like "dreamers" or "idea guys" in my eyes.

>>14175
I'm a bit curious about the extent to which you're able to reprogram yourself. Please keep in mind that the ENTP and INFJ are excellent impersonators.

>>14178
They're only general descriptions. People come with all sorts of personalities. The MBTI theory describes these personalities in the same way star constellations describe the stars. The stars are in a randomised cluster but with star constellations, we project patterns onto the stars however these patterns are merely arbitrary distinctions. You shouldn't see it as a way of defining yourself however if you take it with a grain of salt, it can provide you with an insight.

Also, the theory states that your personality can be predicted by how you take in and process information from your environment. I'm a bit curious about whether or not how you take in or process information can change with spiritual development but I guess I'll find out.

>>14180
How do your friends feel about the topic of occultism then?

 No.14270

>>14243
>How do your friends feel about the topic of occultism then?

They don't know I'm into it. The occult is a pretty delicate topic, so I give away as little as possible.

It would be pretty hard for "mundane" people to shift their paradigm and accept /fringe/ ideas, not to mention they'd have to know all the background theories, information, "proof", etc. to even take this stuff seriously, and common people simply do not know shit, unless they're interested in this kind of stuff and fervently look for it.

That's why I said I'm an "outcast", not because society rejects me, but because the only person I can share my spiritual path with is myself. Which does not bother me that much, but does become a bit frustrating when I consider the prospect of finding a partner and starting a family, since I'd like to have a real, faithful "partner" in life who's equal to me and with whom I could share everything, not just a "girlfriend" to fuck and exploit for cooking and chores.

The more I think about the odds of finding a person like that, the more I'm convinced I'm going to need a spirit waifu.

By the way, you have a good understanding of MBTI. Usually people don't really go in depth and study the functions and stuff. I was really into it last year before getting into the occult seriously.

 No.14286

>>14270
Ah. I've considered a spirit waifu myself, I just don't know if I could make that dive. I'd like to hold out for the possibility of someone genuine with an interest in these topics just like yourself but with my career heading into engineering of all things, I'm beginning to think a spirit waifu will probably be my best option. I occasionally dream about me and her sitting in some sort of relaxing landscape, like something out of Alice in Wonderland in the midst of what's actually a lucid dream. We would drink tea and discuss my work, solving problems in all sorts of novel ways. I smile at her and her eyes light up as well and we're both just so very merry together.

Also, while I appreciate the compliment, I'm not that well-versed in the MBTI theory at all. I read as much as I could and I bought the INTP book by A.J. Drenth however that's it. The rest of what I've learnt has been through lurking discussions on the INTPforums website. Are there any books you'd personally recommend?

 No.14287

Another INTP here, also hoping to one day find a magician-wife to raise kids with. Actually she wouldn't need to be a magician, just a wonderfully good girl, someone with high virtues.

anyway, INTP thread?

 No.14295

>>14243
I do resonate more with INTP. The reason I put both was because the test said that I only had 1% in Thinking, and that they were practically interchangeable. I did get INTP only on the result though.

 No.14316

>>14286

>Are there any books you'd personally recommend?

I just lurked the personalitycafé forum and watched Youtube videos.


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