/fringe/ - Fringe

OP here, also I was thinking of doing the panca-tattva ritual with a prostitute. Would it be in vain?

>>98993

If you had any prowess in any system of actual magic understanding how to manipulate people would come with ease. Why are you bothering trying to cultivate sexual energy with high level techniques when you're such a bullshit occultist you can't command with the will of god all women.

>>98994

Show us your magic then.

>>99004

Thanks for a constructive post, I will check out that book.

Being in the West I am exposed to alcohol and sex all the time. But both are just seen as recreational activities and nothing more though. Sex is the ability to create life, it's a great power. Violence is another thing that saturates our media, that's the power to take life, and meat is consumed everywhere. These biological survival functions give mankind the power to create and destroy, in the case of eating meat both at the same time. As well the idea that God permeates everything, which as a monist I believe, drives me to the understanding that "clean" and "unclean" are mere inventions of humanity, and part of Maya. On top of that, sex, drugs, and violence are just exciting, maybe only because they are taboo. Reading about Kali becoming drunk on the blood of demons just makes me ecstatic. Further the Mahanirvana Tantra recommends these practices for men seeking liberation who live in the Kali Yuga and are ruled by Gunas. I am such a man.

As for doing the panca-tattva, I already do normal asana/pranayama/dharana. Admittedly, I also already drink and have sex. Why not combine them since I do both anyway? I'm not the type to put all my eggs in one basket as they say, and like I said, the lower Gunas have a lot of power over me. I can abstain but only for so long anyway.

The Mahanirvana Tantra which contains the panca-tattva ritual also contains many, more orthodox exercises which I am going to perform, but I don't feel I need any advice on those at this time, so I ask about the panca-tattva ritual.

So, for the panca-tattva I would have to get married for it to not be in vain, as the book says?

>>99010

>So, for the panca-tattva I would have to get married for it to not be in vain, as the book says?

No, you need to have a competent partner who is also well-versed in Tantra. Not to mention a competent Guru under whose tutelage the rite is performed (but I don't have a Guru myself so who am I to tell you that you need one?). Also, "tantric sex" is a myth. Real tantric sex is just a sexualized ritual and not ritualized sex.

>I also already drink and have sex. Why not combine them since I do both anyway?

I don't know any Tantrik lineage that wouldn't recommend preservation of energy and sexual abstinence, so I doubt that you can combine them.

>the lower Gunas have a lot of power over me.

>I can abstain but only for so long anyway.

If by lower gunas you mean tamas and rajas then many (perhaps all) tantras explicitly state that you are a pasu and that you are forbidden from performing these activities. Such rites as five Ms are for people who mastered their desires sufficiently, so that performing these activities in a ritual context won't bound you further to them. If you can't abstain from them, if they still have power over you then using them in Tantrik rite would only have adverse effects, as it is not you who is in control, but your tendencies towards indulging in sex and intoxicants.

In his Aghora trilogy Svoboda explains that his Guru was able to use intoxicants not because he needed them and wanted them, but because he didn't.

>Mahanirvana Tantra

Arthur Avalon is based af, but he was a pioneer. Is it the only tantra that you read? It's really short-sighted to base your knowledge about such a multifaceted tradition, composed of many currents, on just one text. Furthermore, his translations are known to be faulty in certain parts.

Why not read up more? Explore different traditions, try different things?

"Tantrik sex" constitutes a minuscule part of this system, why is it that it gets all the attention, with other, more prevalent parts of the system passing on unnoticed?

>>99019

also

http://shivashakti.com/sex.htm

>>99010

Anyway, your attitude is incorrect IMHO

>ey mane, I like fucking so I will like tantra and shiet

These are not ordinary rites. Compare your motivations for learning """tantric sex""" to perhaps most famous example of Tantrik sex rite carried out by the parents of the most famous Tantrika to have ever lived - Abhinavagupta. They engaged in Tantrik sex to create a suitable vessel so that a godlike entity could descend to this world through them. That entity, being an incarnation of Bhairava, penned many works, created his own synthesis of various Tantrik currents and taught countless disciples before his ascension in the Bahirava cave.

They didn't engage in it because they liked it or that they wanted to gratify their animal urges, they did it for a higher purpose.

Anyway, I can write more about Tantra if you have any questions and I can recommend books and tantras if you want to learn more.

>>99019

Tantra and Yoga have been bastardized and commodified by the West. Yoga is just a series of stretches and positions, Tantra is just a a group of techniques for maximizing sexual pleasure. It's pretty disgusting.

>>99044

>Sorry if I came of as an arrogant fuck

No way man, you've been totally helpful and kind. I'm searching up and bookmarking all the books you've recommended so I can read them later.

>Actually the mantra of Daksinakalika is the only Tantrik mantra I know of that is said to not require initiation into by Guru.

Is this the Daksinekalika mantra?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Kff_1_mu8

I've used Aum Krim Kalikaye Namah before, of course without initiation from a guru. Where one would find an authentic guru in a Western country I don't know. As stated before Westerners have horribly corrupted yoga and especially tantra.

An yeah, I guess I do want to try tantric sex because DUDE SEX LMAO, but who doesn't? I also want to live with desire without being controlled by it. Compared to the average guy on the street, I control my mind very well, though I guess that's not saying much. Better than average, but still lots of room for improvement.

>>99047

Maybe make a blog with a recommended reading list, book reviews, commentary and the like? I'd read it.

I will try that mantra 108 times. I actually wrote it down yesterday because I read about it on that shivashakti website in the link I posted about the Vira Sadhana. "It causes pashus to become viras" it says.

honesty don't see a point on even trying to study this stuff anymore. as pointed out most texts are either not translate or missing even then the translations aren't gonna be ideal cause we wont truly understand the meanings or lack the vocabulary to explain it. We'll have an idea but that's not the same thing as knowing.

>>99130

>I don't really like mythology and am solely interested in the most esoteric

seems like TO ME that people would have a better understanding of deities and their roles if they studied the mythology. Like you pointed out Hinduism and tantra are a cluster fuck and even then there doesn't seem to be a unified definition of what is tantra. For every current of tantra there was probably their own story to explain the deities role. They seem to adapt to whatever culture and try to stay low key.

>practical teachings

Sit there and repeat mantra until placebo kicks in

Fun thing are fun and have a purpose.

>>99141

>even then the translations aren't gonna be ideal cause we wont truly understand the meanings or lack the vocabulary to explain it

That's why you practice things yourself, to get direct understanding.

>people would have a better understanding of deities and their roles if they studied the mythology

people would have a better understanding of deities and their roles if they actually practised the system and got in contact with them

>Hinduism and tantra are a cluster fuck

You don't need to study all of it. I tried to get as broad knowledge as possible regarding the system simply because I resonate with it pretty well and this stuff is actually very interesting to me. Even reading one tantra and practising meditations and energy work contained therein has benefits, even without a broader picture. Nevertheless it certainly helps if you have it.

>there doesn't seem to be a unified definition of what is tantra

https://tantrikstudies.squarespace.com/blog/2015/6/10/definition-of-the-word-tantra

>For every current of tantra there was probably their own story to explain the deities role.

Not necessarily, they all based their definitions on older sources and they all come from the same source, despite the differences. The fact that there is so much diversity doesn't mean that there aren't common denominators nor that the teachings do not converge at some point. Don't cling so hard onto forms, they are just tools and means to an end. Some people prefer one path, some other. I think it's good that this system provides an ability to choose.

>Sit there and repeat mantra until placebo kicks in

*tips fedora*

Also, it's heavy reductionism to assume that Tantra = mantra. Mantras have a very prominent role, but Tantra is a complex system in itself. For every thing in Western occultism you could find a Tantrik counterpart of it (nevermind the fact that so much of the teachings of contemporary Western occultism come directly from Eastern texts, just in a heavily degenerated form).

>Fun thing are fun and have a purpose.

What tantras have you read?

>>99141

>>99142

"Second-hand knowledge of the self gathered from books or gurus can never emancipate a man until its truth is rightly investigated and applied; only direct realisation will do that. Realise yourself, turning the mind inward."

~Tripura Rahasya

>>99142

*tips fedora*

sorry lad until I experience something besides a dream I'm not gonna have a better idea of what it is.

>For every thing in Western occultism you could find a Tantrik counterpart of it

and the counter part of hermeticism?

>just in a heavily degenerated form

what makes tantra much better?

>What tantras have you read?

cant remember, part of kiss of the yogni I use to be like you wanted to find the similarities in all different tantras but I'm not really into it anymore. The more I read the more I realize people get into magic for the wrong reasons and if you want it ti work your basically doing magic for the sake of doing magic.

I guess I'll do the kali mantra since you don't need a guru

>>99168

>sorry lad until I experience something besides a dream

""""magix not real, I have tried it and it doesn't work, pack it up bois""""

>and the counter part of hermeticism?

Tantra? At least according to Bardon.

Bardon wrote that what Tantra is for the East, Hermeticism is for the West. Tantra just contains much more diverse practices and in my opinion contains generally much more than Hermeticism. I always thought that the theory section of IIH is heavily inspired by Tantra anyway, but maybe Bardon came up with it on his own.

>part of kiss of the yogni

Kiss of the Yogini is not a tantra but an academic publication by an author who confessed he has no practical knowledge in this stuff and is just a scholar. Wealth of information for sure, but not a tantra.

>The more I read the more I realize people get into magic for the wrong reasons and if you want it ti work your basically doing magic for the sake of doing magic.

What kind of half-assed strawman is this? What are you even trying to convey?

>>99201

>pack it up bois

Where exactly did I tell you to give up?

>What kind of half-assed strawman is this? What are you even trying to convey?

why dont you tell me?

>>98993

>with a whore

cheap.

cultivate more attraction, get a gf that still looks at you with love in her eyes as youre balls deep down her throat.

alchemy is awesome.

>>98992

Do mudras belong here too?

so is this thread like hinduism general?

from what I could tell hinduism is just three smaller religions squished into one. Like the gita comes from one, and another is some vedic stuff.

Anyone actually understand this?

I have to say though, I've had a gander at the Gita and it is very enlightening. want to learn sanskrit one day

>>99903

yea although you should at least read the entire wiki article on mudras, you should know what to research from there really

>>99903

Of course.

>>99916

>from what I could tell hinduism is just three smaller religions squished into one

>>99129

>>99130

I beg to differ.

>Like the gita comes from one, and another is some vedic stuff

Gita is (a part of) the "vedic stuff".

>I've had a gander at the Gita and it is very enlightening

Abhinavagupta's commentary on it - Gitartha Sangraha is even more so.

What do you think of urine drinking, tantrabro?

Seriously; its an stablished hindu/tantra practica and easy to do, but of course I hesitate because of cultural upbringing.

>>99966

>its an stablished hindu/tantra practica

That's the first time I hear about it in the context of Tantra tbh. The only source (well, as much as it can be called a source) on this that I could find is Shivambu Kalpa, which is said to be a section of a larger work - Damara Tantra. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, as I studied Damara Tantra and it haven't mentioned urine-drinking anywhere as far as I remember. I also quickly went through this tantra just now to refresh my memory and found nothing. On the other hand, these may be different works, especially seeing how this "Shivambu Kalpa" is supposedly a dialogue between Parvati and her consort, while in Damara Tantra it's Bhairavi.

Anyway, never encountered mentions of this practice in any tantra and I never drank my urine either. I don't know anything about it in the broader context of Hindusim, I think in most ajurvedic texts it's cow urine anyway.

also

>Its "method of drinking urine for rejuvenation" is outlined in the Shivambu Kalpa Vidhi, part of a 5000-year-old document called the Damar Tantra

Even Rgveda is 4000 years old tops, so I really doubt the authenticity of these claims. Nevertheless, I haven't given it much research, so if you learn anything about it I'd gladly hear it.

But yeah, urine-therapy was never my cup of… tea?

Just for the purpose of having sex

+ Which I don't see would harm you in any way

The Highest light in the Land

The Jewel in the Lotus

is the best book.

Its crude sketches make it seem animate

>>100135

Trees aren't implicitly required for meditation, it's the Forest.

You have to go far away from others, and be undisturbed by man for a long time if you wish the same experience, and shitty city air doesn't tend to help. Anywhere can work, if you can be alone and undisturbed, and far away from distraction.

>>100135

>is it possible to meditate deeply in your apartment?

Sure it is, meditation is about turning within. It doesn't matter where you are, you are turning within anyway, and your within is the same, be it in the city or in secluded mountain forests.

>All the texts say great sages went deep into the forest

All the texts were written before industrialization. We must make our own paths now and not try the hardest to emulate the old ways. Of course, if you can get in touch with nature then do it. If you can mediate in a secluded location undisturbed then it can be helpful, if you don't then you just have to make do with what you have. Don't use not having perfect conditions as an excuse, because they will never be perfect. It's not about your external conditions, but your internal processes.

"Bad smells and perfumes one should sense as equal.

Just as a lotus petal in water is without stain, so a Yogi is

unmarred by merit or sin. In one in whom this mental

disposition has blossomed there is no difference between

killing a Brahmin or the Ashvamedha sacrifice, nor is there

any difference between bathing in all the sacred waters or

contact with barbarians.’’

~Kaulajnananirnaya tantra

I'm so in the tao right now that I need a young boy to tongue my anus but before I would be sure to bath us in lots of urine (his)

Wait.. this IS a tantra thread, right?

>>100135

1. you are in a box

2. you are surrounded by an electric field detrimental to the aura and body consciousness

3. nature is made up of recurring fractals and if you don't know what that means then just lol

stupid larpers

I just activated my kundalini listening to this, wut do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeGrLVg0YjM#t=33m37s

>>100228

Tao is not degenerate

>>100229

📉🌴🌴🌴 meditate

>>100229

This one really activates my almonds

actually zeds dead has much better mixes that are not on jewtube

>>100250

For you

>>100262

No

>>100271

Not going to listen to your jew music

>>100292

No one will ever give a fuck about you. Enjoy pathetically dying alone

>>97548

Haha yeah! Atkinson amirite?

>>98994

Iknowrite? I yoose the law of atrakchun and it works cuz I'm a Pisces lol XDDD

>>98995

😉👌

Say that to me in the Astral not online faggot

>>100135

Ya as long as u got all ur 50$ chakra stones xDDDDD

>>99129

Nope ur wrong, I'm a magus 😂😂😂

😂

Hey how do I same?

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

>>111163

*Saje

Damn good discussion in this thread. Have lots of research and reading to do now.

>>100250

The Tao encompasses all things. To classify it as either degenerate or not degenerate is to lose its essence.

>>111463

kike

the tao doesn't encompass jews and degens their part of the demiurge and must rope

>>99966

I'm not the tantrabro but urine drinking is great if you want to raise your vibes/expand your aura fast.

It will leave you spacey and unstable and a little weak from the growth but you'll be buzzing with energy.

If I were to do it safely, first I'd be well-grounded for a good month, then I'd go for 3-6 days, observing when I get ungrounded, stopping when I do to integrate the expansion.

or just do whatever and experiment. I did it for 3-10 days straight when I was already ungrounded kinda, because it was fun/a way to escape from being sad.

Khan said it raises vibes faster than even dry fasting

>>111464

>>111464

didn't mean to reply but

>making any assumptions about the tao

>>100229

gone :(

>>100262

yes

>>100292

off with ye, heathen

>>100050

>The Jewel in the Lotus

interesting.

>>112670

>A discord, blog, or something of the sort would be great.

amethystdeceiver#9348

I don't really think I've got much to share and nowadays I much more prefer to quietly focus on the stuff I do rather than talk about it, but more occult friends is always nice.

>>114166

If I look back I turn to salt. If I look forward I become nothing. If I look up I see God. If I look down I see Satan. What are the chances of me looking up?

>>114166

>>114167

Where does one find a guru?

>>114166

Also, what's a kalpa?

>>114259

It's an absurdly long period of time in Hinduism.

>>114725

Thank you.

>>114725

This is why I'm so skeptical of the "mystics are just powerless magicians" narrative, because we've all known that guy who is 100% a virgin occultist, and as exaggerated as the Chad yogi is supposed to be, no smoke without a fire.

>>114725

fukken sav'd

>>114259

Countless kalpas, is the time that you guys will be reborn in the 6 realms of existence if you guys don't find a real root Guru or at least cultivate merit from NOW. And believe me the lower realms are way worst than this world.

How to know that he's a Mahasiddha? You need to meet him in person, then you'll know, because you are going to see miracles. How to find it anyway? Idk lol, you need to be extremely lucky to find someone who has achieved Mahamudra. I've found mine but obviously I'm not going to post his contact info on a public forum.

You need a hilarious amount of merit to really find Him. And you need a real aspiration to get out of this structure of Creation and give up every single thing to achieve this, real Hotsu Bodaishin.

Without Shakti, transmitted by the Guru (Shaktipat), or by grace from Mother it's not possible.

Don't search in big groups, like Sadhguru for example who has achieved it but only gives Shakti to a very small close group that I guess it's pretty hard to get in.

>>114795

Cultivate merit from NOW? How? Explain further please. What's merit?

>Without Shakti, transmitted by the Guru (Shaktipat), or by grace from Mother it's not possible.

Shakti? Grace from Mother? Mother who?

How do I get to work on helping myself right now?

>>114802

Want to help yourself? Use this!

have some good resources. The threads this was on were suddenly archived or just deleted.

This video here, https://youtube.com/watch?v=CpH_rXGHX1w , is a remote "soft kill shield" for targeted individuals of all kinds. It will work to destroy many harassments. This other, https://youtube.com/watch?v=OZCgOoGSLdQ , is the second version of the targeted individual scatter frequency. I hope that they help."

"Dive deep within yourself, speak to your Higher Self (read http://www.ascensionhelp.com/blog/2013/08/23/why-i-am-no-longer-a-light-worker/ and http://www.ascensionhelp.com/blog/2013/11/21/tell-the-lords-of-karma-that-you-are-sovereign-no-longer-a-lightworker-part-2/, by Cameron Day), enter your Akashik records, and you shall Know. We are One with the All (Infinite Source) as the All (Infinite Source) is One with Us. If you need more guiding, read from Bibliotecapleyades and Montalk. Take what resonates. Finally, listen to the following videos  https://youtube.com/watch?v=RQIO9cqwgcE which connects you to the Universal and Infinite Love of the Infinite Source, https://youtube.com/watch?v=pSyUT2p4H24 which awakens your Intuitive Powers (Higher Self guiding), https://youtube.com/watch?v=feilxGTQkow which helps you realize the Divine Interconnection of Everything (your Divine nature), https://youtube.com/watch?v=LFXeCJ5j25o which cleanses your etheric body out of everything negative , https://youtube.com/watch?v=XvyPscRD1ss which cleanses your subconscious and your personal universe , (commas are flying so they do not become part of the link).

Each has instructions, and the last ones are particularly important; only watch them 1 time per day for 5 days, then rest for 2, and then you may repeat them. Beware that sometimes channels will try to brainwash you; the ones I have listed are safe. Reclaim your Divine Sovereignity, Fight the Parasites, STS/Duality/Low Vibration/Frequency/Density Beings and the different Matrix Control Systems.

Remember always, do not go into the light when you die."

Demons and archontic parasites absolutely hate the last video!

Also merging one of my other comments:

"The DrVirtual7 has made these amazing videos:  https://youtube.com/watch?v=YVDGY5BKT5k , to help you with making a Shield of White and Golden Light, and  https://youtube.com/watch?v=MrvQ-YNThDg , to protect yourself from and dissolve black magic, also cleaning the Space of Self."

Peace!

>>114795

since you're a kali devotee can you please tell me what does the tongue out mean. I ask because during some of my meditations my tongue pops out and my eyes are wide open and i feel a sense of freeing. I think this has to do with the throat chakra since I feel I'm unblocking it.

btw im a tibetan buddhist and we have a chant to Mahakala which is obviously related to Kali so maybe thats why im getting the tongue and eye thing going.

I feel very energized when that happens and then i close my eyes and keep meditating with my tongue out.

>>114966

/thread

>>114966

>>114967

No wonder. Tantric practice has always been meant to terrify mundanes and boggle their minds. That's a defense against the "pearls thrown to swine" effect.

>>114975

Do not be worried pige, from regular meditations your tongue will not pop out and your eyes will not be open. Do energy work, do meditation on empty mind, do visualization and imagination exercises. Keep it real and stay with the good old useful meditations, be a good piggy. I personally do not recommend this tantra bullshit where your tongue pops out while you get posessed by some faggot indian rape spirit.

>>114976

Ah, ok thanks, that is a relief to hear, except the pige part.

I told you i'm NOT A PIGGY!

>>114976

That's no possession though. More like donning a mask. Basic tantra is essentially about that - visualizing yourself as a certain "deity"/"buddha" thus gradually gaining its knowledge and power.

>>114978

>I told you i'm NOT A PIGGY!

I am sorry you feel this way. I think it's better I go now. Farewell pige.

I had someone I trust recommend Kaula yoga, so it's quite the coincidence to see it brought up. Do you have any recommendations for a beginner "yogi." I know very little about tantra/yoga, so something that starts with the basics would be nice.

>>115149

I'm not sure which branch. I was just told that it was a path towards gnosis/divinization. My perspective is a very traditionalist and Vedic one, so if there's a certain branch that's very old, primordial even, that would be nice. Sorry for not knowing much on the topic.

>>115156

Okay, read this thread and my other posts from another Tantrik thread linked above. It should give you a rough idea where to start with Tantra.

>path towards gnosis/divinization

What does divinization entail?

>My perspective is a very traditionalist and Vedic one

Care to elaborate what do you mean by this? People often say that they like Vedas or have a worldview influenced by Vedic thought, but many seem to confuse Vedic ideas with Vedantic ones and some even with Tantrik.

But if you are who you say you are then Kaula (and Tantra generally) certainly isn't fit for someone who has head filled with purity/impurity dualism and caste system ideology. Just a heads up. Vedas are the most exoteric group of Hindu writings and Tantra the most esoteric and internalized teachings. Vedic practice entailed only sacrifice to Gods. Which is fine you know, for what it is. I'm not saying that Vedas are wrong or false or whatever. They certainly aren't, but they were fit for different people, in different age. Tantra is the Shastra for this yuga and following its path bears many fruits. Of course, Tantrik ideas can be also found in Vedas, but still… the shift in perspective can be quite noticeable if you go into it with Vedic notions in your mind.

>>115149

>that fucking underlining

>>115188

How can a person tell when they have reached Mahamudra?

>>115531

Dunno, I'm not much into Buddhism.

>>115536

Go to my library, in folder "Yogas" in Buddhism you have a number of texts that speak about Tummo and other Yogas of Naropa.

>>115538

Alright. I'll ask one more question, if you don't mind. If I know how to navigate death by recognizing that everything experienced at the point if death is a projection of my own mind, is it ok to kill myself if I find myself in agonizing pain one day? I'm not asking what the ancient texts say, I'm curious to hear your personal opinion.

>>115543

Good luck, regardless of what you do.

>>115538

what library?

>>115546

It's literary on the first page

>>115508

I like Tantra a lot. I find everything about the practice ideal. When I read books about it the authors tend to make me feel welcome, comfortable, and eager to participate. I listen to recordings of guided meditations and realize results. Everything goes fine… until I interact with other Tantric practitioners. Then it's uncomfortable at best and infuriating at worst.

If I ask the wrong question they get upset. If I talk about things I've experienced they get upset. I worked with a Guru for months but every time I tried to ask questions it seemed to be like I was bothering him. I went to that DharmaWheel forum and they were complete jackasses.

I have only taken the initiation/empowerment from myself and from recordings. The Guru I worked with irl didn't give me the Tantric initiation and every dharma class was the same lesson over and over again, with a few variations, so I eventually parted ways with him.

I found a Guru who would let me take initiations from recordings, but he is old and very busy, so it was suggested I work with his students instead. His students, however, said I couldn't take initiations from recordings. When I asked why they said they were just repeating what they were taught, with the implication that it would be rude to ask for further clarification. Around this point I gave in to the frustration and started yelling.

From what I was able to piece together later, their point is that unless the Guru is actively connecting to the student through time and space at the moment of the initiation, the student doesn't get the initiation.

My argument is that everything is void so the idea that the Guru has inherent existence is false. As such there is no need to transcend a physical body, since the body is illusory. In addition, since the Guru is void, there is no external Guru to request initiation from. The Guru is already within, and it would be asinine to have part of self saying to another part of self "No you can't have the initiation", since self is also void. From my perspective every initiation is a self-initiation projected outwards. From what I can tell, all of "reality" takes place on the curved screen of my eyes, events that I simply imagine are fundamentally as real as events I perceive any other way, so events taking place on a television screen are also "real". The Upanishads (iirc) say that if a student has complete faith even a rock can function as the Guru and lead a student to realization. A recording is much more interactive and easier to have faith in than a rock.

So this is where I'm stuck. Based on what i have experienced, as well as based on my current understanding of dharmic "reality", recordings either work fine (I have had intense meditative experiences of recieving initiation from recordings) or I already have the empowerment from previous lives. The Guru told me I had done work for him in previous lives, so this is possible. However when I try to talk to other Tantric practitioners all this reasonable conversation stops. I don't know if I karmically have earned mockery from them, and thus it's inescapable, or if I'm just an exception somehow and they aren't recognizing it.

I just want to get the initiation, live, so other Tantric practitioners will stop doubting me and I can feel accepted. I'm 99% sure I already have it, but I would like to be certain. I'd like to do so with the least amount of drama possible. Do you have any suggestions for how I could go about doing this without having to jump through a dozen hoops?

>>115556

What do you need initiation for anyway? To feel accepted among your peers? Just tell them you were initiated and be done with it, it really doesn't matter much.

Whatever benefit you got from your practice - it's yours, no one can take it away from you or tell you that you are not qualified for this or that. Sure, empowerments and transmissions of teachings are powerful, but you can make do without them if need be. Really, don't get so hung up on the idea of initiation, just do your work and see where it leads you.

>>115559

My understanding of what is taught is that without empowerment/initiation there is no realization of mahasiddhi, and in the off-chance there is such a realization without empowerment the practitioner eventually uses up all their poistive merit and falls back to either hell or the beginning of samsaric births.

It's confusing because I know self-initiation happens in the East, but in the West it's considered taboo. The issue isn't that I need to feel accepted, it's that unless I state "I took empowerment from so-and-so at such-and-such a time", I am not welcome to discuss my experiences or perspective woth most other Tantric practitioners. It is exceedingly ironic that the only person I've found willing to do so (you) is on 8/fringe/ of all places, and not a Buddhist. However this is a situation, as far as I know, that is common to all Tantric paths.

The secretary of the Guru whose recording I experienced initiation from called me crazy when I told her about it, even though based on everything I've learned, my results were ideal. The Guru I worked with irl said "Everything is illusion, that was just another illusion", so he believed me, but didn't find it significant. So I really have no idea if I received it or not, and if I did it didn't seem to come with any vows, which is apparently another issue but I'm not sure why.

I've taken to lightheartedly calling myself a Bastardsattva, i.e. a Bodhisattva no one wants to claim as part of their mandala. All of this kind of fell into my lap. I gave myself the vows because no one told me I couldn't. Pretty much everything I did, I did not realizing fully that I wasn't officially supposed to. I didn't ask permission to do any of it. I put it in my head that there were no Gurus to learn from, and that if Buddha could do it alone, I could. Once I started seeing results I happily contacted the students of the Guru who made the recording, but they said it was crazy to say I could work with a dead Guru. So now I really don't know what to think. The spiritual community is one of the jewels I have taken refuge in. I don't think they are supposed to be calling me crazy for succeeding. Very weird situation.

The primary issue that caused all of this is that I'm distrustful, headstrong and difficult to work with. That's why I'm trying to improvise. I have had a very difficult life in the military and it's made me rather… emotionally brutal. I tend to hurt people's feelings and make them feel disrespected. I can do ok typing because I can edit, but face to face I always say or do the wrong thing. That's why I decided to do it alone, out of necessity, not choice.

>>115556

>My argument is that everything is void so the idea that the Guru has inherent existence is false. As such there is no need to transcend a physical body, since the body is illusory. In addition, since the Guru is void, there is no external Guru to request initiation from. The Guru is already within, and it would be asinine to have part of self saying to another part of self "No you can't have the initiation", since self is also void. From my perspective every initiation is a self-initiation projected outwards. From what I can tell, all of "reality" takes place on the curved screen of my eyes, events that I simply imagine are fundamentally as real as events I perceive any other way, so events taking place on a television screen are also "real". The Upanishads (iirc) say that if a student has complete faith even a rock can function as the Guru and lead a student to realization. A recording is much more interactive and easier to have faith in than a rock.

Everything you said here is correct, you've got it.

I have (present tense) three guides, two of whom have been dead since before I knew of them. The other one was a close blood relative and nothing short of a mythic hero to his children and grandchildren, now made even more mythical by the years which have passed since his death. Their being dead has had no negative bearing whatsoever on their teaching. My point is this: Anyone attempting to sell you on how you have to be a member of their special club to gain access to the infinite is full to bursting with horseshit.

There is never any shortage of various clubs selling their personal branded versions of Enlightenment™. This is a shell game meant for people who don't yet feel they have "earned" liberation, that they in their current form are too stupid/ignorant/lazy/greedy. They deny themselves enlightenment by dancing around it, playing these various games. The more they try to catch it, the more it evades them because they just strengthen the narrative of "I'm new, I'm not the master, someone else is the master. Some other ego knows best, some other ego is enlightened, so I can't be."

This is an excuse to remain an ego while maintaining some faith that progress is being made, that it all is okay because someday it'll happen. It has the exact same purpose and mechanism of a hamster wheel. You can clearly see that the price of getting those super special cosmic merit badges is your focus on the root of the matter. It's like saying that you cannot work out that 2 + 2 = 4 without having tenure as a math professor.

>>115561

>they said it was crazy to say I could work with a dead Guru.

Then be crazy to them. What good is being sane in their eyes? Do the work before you. Comparing yourself to others is delusion, based in the artifice of 'attainment.' That's silly. "Aha, you have figured out that 2 + 2 = 4, BUT I figured that out AND I set up a school so that people can work really hard thinking about 2 and 2, and one day they might figure out that it's 4! Obviously I'm the better mathematician."

>>115565

>Anyone attempting to sell you on how you have to be a member of their special club to gain access to the infinite is full to bursting with horseshit.

Before I started doing Tumo/Tummo the visions I experienced were all externalized. When I started doing guided Tummo sessions suddenly my vision went inside. Right before that happened I had the vision of being given the empowerment. So from my perspective something very different happened, but I don't know which part of the experience, whether it was the Guru, the deity, the Tummo, or the empowerment, or some combination of them, that made the difference. Since that happened any vision state I get to automatically goes on inside, in whatever that empty space between my brain and my eye is. I no longer have externalized visions.

>>115566

I don't know enough about Tibetan Buddhism specifically to make a judgment call either way, but you ought to be extremely skeptical, to put it mildly, of anyone, no matter how otherwise enlightened, who claims that you need to be one of their spiritual frat brothers in order to truly 'get it.' They have every right to only let in whomever they please into their clubhouse, but that's all it is, a club, no matter what excuse they use for it.

That, and if you want to steal a good idea from a system without the permission of whoever came up with it, don't hesitate, steal it, use it and abuse it, once you know what it is. If they won't tell you, then they don't have a clue, so go ahead and use whichever ones work best for your current situation. Nobody has ever had a monopoly on liberation and nobody ever will.

If it helps, I'm also relatively asocial, or rather, my only moments of real anger or frustration or loss of wisdom of som form or other inevitably get traced back to having to put up with other people's social/peer-related BS, their ideologies, their goofy stories in which if they don't save the world personally it will come crashing down, blah blah blah. It's always there, I know, and I accept it, but part and parcel of that is accepting that it's really fucking stupid. As has always been the case, that gets carried over into every community, spiritual or otherwise, only when it's in a spiritual, mystical, or occult community, suddenly it's not just gossip or bald-faced ideology, it's idiots telling you that god himself with a capital G personally thinks their shit stinks less and that they're going to wake up the whole world because that's never ever been tried before in the history of mankind. It's hard to get dumber than that, and by the same token, it's difficult to blame you for not having a very good time with them.

tl;dr Don't worry about it, you have your facts straight on this, the rest is just playing around, so play as you want to, and don't play as you don't want to and the rest will sort itself out.

>>115569

>their goofy stories in which if they don't save the world personally it will come crashing down, blah blah blah

I think that's a test everyone is given. You get in the habit of looking for synchronisities and one day you seem to get the message that something NEEDS your attention desperately. Like, a "world hangs in the balance" situation. I went through that feeling over the current political situation, until I realized I was getting sucked back into the illusions.

So there seems to be a choice then, after realization, the "live as a yogi or live a worldly life" thing. But I never really understood it completely. In the original story, from Hinduism, the God drops a thunderbolt on the demon and decides to become a yogi, whereupon his wife intervenes by having a messenger show that by dropping the thunderbolt on the demon he's apparently doomed to take rebirth as an ant, and start the process of lives over again. Am I understanding that correctly? Is it a test of realizing the demon is our own reflection/projection, and not to harm it? Is it possible to doom ourselves by making judgements after we wake up, when we really ought to know better?

>>115571

Yes and no. It is possible to "backslide" into illusion if you allow yourself to space out or fall back into a bad mental habit, but it does not bar someone from recalling good habits and behaviors. Let's take an example from life.

I have a complicated history with social media. I've been very good at using it in the past, and yet I have a strong tendency to despise everyone I interact with while on it for being "unwise" (the tendency is hypocritical by nature), or even anyone in that ideological save-the-world mode. I mean I really, truly wish that some serious harm will come to them when it happens, it's not a fun feeling, but it's a whole mode of thought.

If I act unwisely and get on it, I can again slip into my old habits of thinking that these people deserve to be in some way punished or hurt, but when I stop to reflect, I know that I will be ashamed of my lack of thought at the end. If instead I act wisely and I disengage from the whole stupid tangle, I'm much more genuinely social, personable, and able to engage with others. It becomes a non-issue, even if the potential is there for me to slip back into it.

The lesson is simply that self-awareness always leads to good results, when put into practice. Self-ignorance always leads to bad results no matter what.

PS as always it is worth noting that the punishment for backsliding is the state of backsliding itself. There is no great punishment for ignorance beyond its immediate mental consequences, i.e. you can be a complete dingbat and still liberation will be available to you. It's a question of what you want and how you want it, not what is possible.

>>115584

So is the messenger telling a lie when he says the God will be reborn as an ant for dropping the lightning bolt on the demon and feeling proud of it? The story makes it clear that this is always the result, and that this sequence of actions repeats itself forever. Do we recognize that and leave the demon alone?

>>115600

I mean, it depends on how much you buy about reincarnation and allegory in these texts. All I can ever tell you is what seems to be the case for me. There are a plethora of ways in which issues can be resolved. I could do any number of things if I really cared that much about using social media again, but the easiest is to redirect focus. That's just in my example.

It sounds like this story is more about the round of samsara, though, which is a different conceptual region than I've been trying to convey. I'd need the story and context to be sure.

>>115600

>and feeling proud of it

I'm sorry, I didn't see this bit before. That's a pretty crucial detail, actually. Nevermind my samsara comment, I was misinterpreting what you were saying. Again, I ought to have the story and context before I make any sort of ass-pull commentary about it.

>>115608

Thanks much, reading now!

>>116764

Psilocybin's better for making contact with anything feminine IME, LSD–if it's good LSD, goodness knows that's iffy these days–is often a more masculine experience. The partial dopaminergic character of ergotamines seems to lend them a sharpness tryptamines lack. I haven't tried phenethylamines but I strongly suspect they'll be even sharper.

>>116830

>These are not my techniques nor have they been made up. They are from Master Samael Aun Weor many decades ago.

Yes, I've read a few of his articles about Tantra way back when. They are made up. Not by you, but by him. He has no knowledge of Tantra.

>Genuine Tantra

Well, if you are truly representing """genuine Tantra""" then maybe quote some tantra in favour of your view? You know, Tantra is an established tradition. You can't just go and add things to it. Something either is Tantrik - that is - is part of Tantrik tradition, or isn't. Stuff doesn't become part of Tantra just because you say it is.

>Prana is sexual

As much as anything else is sexual. Again - you are using words that already have their established meaning. Why not use your own words to express what you want to express? Why do you keep saying prana, Kundalini, Shakti or Tantra, while subverting their original meaning for your own ends?

>The two olive branches that through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves in Zechariah 4:11-14 are the two nadis Ida and Pingala

Or so do you say. You give this example, but it doesn't prove anything. You know, I can take any random and vagualy spiritual quote that mentions two channels/pipes/whatever and say they are Ida and Pingala. But are they truly? Even in traditions that have much more similarities (say - Tibetan Buddhism and Trika Tantra) the energy body systems were different in many regards and one could hardly equate on to the other. Maybe give it some more study?

>coiled three and a half times inside the chakra Muladhara which is situated in the coccygeal bone

https://tantrikstudies.squarespace.com/blog/2016/2/5/the-real-story-on-the-chakras

I feel like I already reposted this a hundred times.

>You have misunderstood me by assuming that I believe that sexual union is forbidden in Tantra

No, you said that "all tantric working is a system of sexual transmutation", while it is not. Far from it. Sexual rites constitute a minuscule part of the system. For the most part it's ritual worship.

>in the Tantric scriptures

You seem eager to hider under the authority of scriputres. What tantric scriptures have you read?

Okay, so to wrap things up - you belive you are representing true Tantra, but you are not, and you don't even know this because no one has told you otherwise. Well, I do know. Make of that what you will, maybe read some proper book about Tantra or one of tantras themselves, just don't go on telling people that this or that is genuine Tantra, because you are very far from genuine Tantra and you are contributing to a widespread misinformation about the subject.

Here are some good resources about real Tantra:

How to chant OM and few other meditations from Vijnanabhairava:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ftGeQkvlwI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OmBhlWrrGc

Kundalini:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyWrGQWSgfs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs6Kb2-PEBk

Trika:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHd6RduL_fE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjsIitUH6aw

http://www.sutrajournal.com/a-thousand-years-of-abhinavagupta-by-jeffrey-lidke

http://www.anuttaratrikakula.org/

http://www.shivashakti.com/

https://tantrikstudies.squarespace.com/

https://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/

http://www.kamakotimandali.com/blog/index.php

As well as Hindu folder in my library, which is devoted almost solely to Tantra

https://mega.nz/#F!ogVAVaTB!_n5E94768ngBAprXiIxfug

For beginners I recommend:

Aspects of Kashmir Saivism by B. N. Pandit

Kashmir Shaivism: The Secret Supreme by Swami Lakshmanjoo

The Aphorisms of Siva: The Siva Sutra with Bhaskara's Commentary by Mark Dyczkowski

The Doctrine of Vibration: An Analysis of the Doctrines and Practices of Kashmir Shaivism by Mark S. G. Dyczkowski

then you can study Vijnanabhairava tantra (Swami Lakshmanjoo and Jaideva Singh editions) for a very comprehensive practice manual of Trika meditation

That should set you up in regards to Trika, but there is a great many Tantrik lineages that you can immerse yourself in, nevertheless I consider Trika to be the apex of Tantra. If you want a good entry-level book on Śaktism (and particularly Kalikula) then Kali Kaula is a great place to start, as are publications of Mike Magee. All of the aforementioned books (and much, much more) can be found in my library.

When it comes to Buddhist Tantra - you will have to figure it out yourself as I don't really have much knowledge about it.

>>117668

It's basically the same in just about any system. Even systems which get fundamentals right can disagree about everything else. The politics of who follows what lineage can and quite certainly should give any aspirant pause, although some schools will do this to see if you're gullible enough to fall for it, it's a phase to be pushed through. Nemesis-style masters are considerably more common in the east, and even local instructors in Asian countries will treat you like shit. Monks regularly get beatings from their masters, and anyone telling you it's just to focus concentration is lying, it's not to focus concentration, it's open corporal punishment. I'm not sure how common that is among Western gurus.

I admit it's funny to see how many "eat pray love" types see this and think "oh my god it's so different, they must be truly wise ascended masters!" which is like an Asian coming over here and treating a high school principal like a Nobel prize winner. You're dead right, they're humans, they're hardly infallible. Quite a number of masters in today's climate fell into the position through little more than a lack of competition within their schools.

>>117676

That's a good justification but not always used. Some teachers say that, others have different justifications as to the opportunity presented by receiving some nominal pain. The point of all corporal punishment in this context ought to be corrective advancement, though.

>a secret

You have to love how the ancient sages loved to keep secrets, only to find out that the one bit of perfect and amazing profound wisdom they personally gleaned is the same secret all the rest of them have been trying to squirrel away. It's like trying to store sunlight in a vault.

>>117678

With that said, it's still a good idea to shut up about it. Don't spoil the game for the rest of the players, I suppose. Self-saging for double posting, carry on.

>>117692

Sartre famously wrote that hell is other people. It's true. You're in the thick of the dark night of the soul, and my heart goes out to you, because I know what that feels like. It's not forever.

>insanity

Insanity is not hell, just non-sanity. Although people play up insanity like just acting like an asshole is the same as mental illness, the truth is that having a 'sincere' mental illness is not the worst thing that could happen to you mentally. You already subject yourself to that much by belief alone, and it didn't take hallucinations or strong delusions (well, stronger than normal, anyways) to take you there.

>>117706

Hey, no pressure, just let us know how your current plan plays out, if you want. Good luck.

>>117951

Does a dog have Buddha nature?

Assuming you're a Westerner like me, and I'm curious how you feel about the implications of it all. Once you drive your Therveda car to nonduality land, once you get the message and hang up the phone, once you reach Satori, what do you strive for as an aspect of God living in the form of a human in 2018?

Is it cyclyical? The Buddha spoke of his first experience or glimpse of enlightenment beneath a tree as a child. If he had untied all of his knots at that point, could his subsequent pursuit of knowledge and explorations in hedonism/ascetiscism be seen as an endeavor to do something with the gift he knew he was in possession of?

Most of us still have to wake up and go to work, sweet talk our girlfriends, feed ourselves etc. What I'm getting at is how do you roleplay a human who knows they're not in a subject object relationship with the world around them? Where do you pick up a custodial uniform and a mop to do your part in toiling away at perfecting perfection?

>>117990

There's a Zen saying for just about every goddamn thing, and in this case it's "before enlightenment, chopped wood, fetched water. After enlightenment, chopped wood, fetched water." Or something to that effect.

You do the same thing you were doing. You play any game you please. The only real difference is that when it comes down to it, you're not stuck wondering what the deal is. It's a very small change in the end, but it's infinitely valuable. You have a free pass to play any role you can get away with, without being bound to the outcome.

The secret of enlightenment is that there is really no way you could act more or less enlightened. You could not possibly do anything 'wrong' from the cosmic perspective. Choose anything, knowing it's a game.

>>98992

>thinking doing anything left hand path is a good idea

You deserve what you get

>>114979

>>115000

I had no idea this was the case, the same as the Egyptians did…

Thanks for explaining this.

>>116789

Fehu is cattle/property/richer though.

Algiz/Algir (moose) is the solar greeting.

>>118221

>still stuck in the left hand-right hand path false dichotomy

You're basically still a Christian, my man

>>114259

The Buddha was asked how long a kalpa was, and he answered with a metaphor. He said a kalpa was the length of time for a stone, 16 miles on each side, to be worn away if touched with a cloth every 100 years. Another metaphor explains a kalpa as like a large empty cube 16-miles square. If you insert a tiny mustard seed every hundred years, the stone would be filled before the kalpa ends. It appears to mean an immense period of time. The period must serve to encompass all the ages of creation and dissolution of a world system.

Types of Kalpas

The lengths of a kalpa can vary greatly. A short kalpa would be somewhere in the range of 16.8 million years. A medium kalpa would be about 320 billion years. A long, or great, kalpa would be around 1,347 million years. 

"The highest one is ‘the heaven of neither perception nor non-perception’, and the lifespan of the beings in this heaven is 84,000 great kalpas in human years."

>>119128

https://mega.nz/#F!ogVAVaTB!_n5E94768ngBAprXiIxfug!MhMS1KRJ

First text in this folder

>>119128

Tongue cutting.

That's some seriously crazy shit right there.

I'm a naturalist [or more just primal] though. I figure if I can't do it on my own then it isn't time.

I like the stories about Hindu ascetics though. Those who forsook all material stuff and focused purely on the interior worlds.

I think about them occasionally when contemplating remote viewing. I just assume they are in the audience.

>>119130

no need to cut tongue if stretched

>>119129

Thanks

>>119130

The distance is closer than it seems

>>119165

That book tells you to cut, but I think talabya kriya and keeping your tongue stretched back when not eating or sleeping is best. The main things I take from the book are that you should first spit out the liquid that drips down until it becomes sweet and the various applications and benefits of the mudra

>>114795

fear mongering

>>115556

remember, all you're doing is seeking acceptance and permission from other imperfect human beings as if they are god. don't fool yourself, and don't allow others to fool you. ask not of the imperfect, ask of the perfect. ask God for permission and help.

>>115584

can be further translated to

>ignorance of any kind - bad

>awareness - good

>>115585

don't get trapped in the "HOW". this is a mental limitation. you can get stuck in the how, and get lost thinking "that way of "how" happening might not happen so "this" can't happen"

let go of limitation. just know it CAN happen. how does not matter. just do everything as right as you can. it WILL happen. there is no such thing as impossible with God.

>>115600

leaving the demon alone is akin to accepting and worshipping your limitations, flaws, and imperfections. slaying the dragon, working through your problems and trying to be the best you can be is a good thing, you're trying to discard and eliminate all that is bad, wrong, imperfect, and trying to embrace and feed and nourish all that is good and perfect.

not slaying the demon is to allow it to continue and hurt yourself further and hurt others further. sure, in this false reality they may always be metaphorical demons around, and while slaying them wont do anything long term, we should still slay the metaphorical demons and become better versions of ourselves because it's a part of our spiritual growth and experience. basically like grinding wild hogs in WOW.

>>115609

yea, there's a difference between bad ego and good ego.

you shouldn't win a race and say "OH YEA LOOK AT ME I'M BETTER THAN ALL OF YOU HAHAHAHAHA SUCK IT" but if you win a race you should feel at least a reasonable but peaceful and quiet level of pride and joy for your success.

if you did good you should feel good and know you did the right thing, but you shouldn't be an asshole about it.

>>116788

>worships the kundalini serpent

>prana is everything in the "material world"/the matrix

>christ energy

>talking about the sun

>lucifer

>serpent

>jesus and satan both called "the morning star"

why is everything so fucking satanic

>>117706

heaven can only be God and what God allows one to experience as good.

>>114725

The occult side mentions aimlessly switching paths, but this honestly has been plaguing me since I began studying esoteric knowledge. And frankly, a lot of that other shit applies.

But if you require initiation and a legit OG guru, I have no idea how to go about that. I'm a poor shut-in NEET. I just want to become better, faster, stronger and kvlt as fuck.

Now I must take into consideration all this information, and an left not knowing which way is up… or down, as the case may be.

Is occidental mysticism all trash to some here? Literally no idea where to go from here…

if the goal of a practice is simply to improve one’s sex life, then however spiritual-sounding it may be, it cannot be called Tantra. If, on the other hand, that goal is part of a practice in which it is consistently subordinated to the goal of complete spiritual freedom and awakening to the ultimate reality, then it can be called Tantra (if the other definitional requirements are also met)

THE KĀMA-SŪTRA has Nothing to do with Tantra. The Kāma-sūtra is part of a branch of literature called Kāma-śāstra, or the science of pleasure. Its overall goal is the maximization of sensual pleasure as a valid end in itself. By definition, it is not Tantrik, because in the Tantra, the goal of pleasure, when present, is always subordinated to the goal of final spiritual liberation, which does not figure into the Kāma-sūtra. Simply reading the original texts will immediately reveal that they belong to a completely different class of literature. Nor do any of the public erotic temple carvings seen in India (such as in Khajurāho) relate to Tantrik practice.

>BUT TANTRA IS ABOUT DIVINE SEXUALITY, RIGHT?

Only if you are interpreting that phrase very broadly indeed. If we survey the Śaiva Tantrik

literature as a whole, we will see that sex per se is virtually absent as a topic. There is one lineage

group, however, the Kaula, that teaches sensual practices and has what we might call a “sexualized”

view of the world, seeing the whole of reality as the harmonious and joyous pulsating union of

various sets of complementary opposites.

In the original Tantrik sources, we do find some techniques for working with sexual energy and

using it to activate kuṇḍalinī, but we find absolutely no physical techniques aimed at prolonging

orgasm and so on. While there is such a thing as a Tantrik sexual ritual in the Śaiva tradition, it was

taught in only one text out of many hundreds, and it is there called a secret and esoteric doctrine meant

for a very few. (It is taught much more prominently in Buddhist Tantra, however.) The Tantrik sexual

ritual was primarily a meditative exercise, not a pleasure-maximizing exercise. For more on the

difference between original Tantra and the American new-age “Tantric sex” workshops, see the

conclusion. Those workshops are about spiritualized sexuality (not necessarily a bad thing per se),

whereas original Tantra is about a sensual and embodied spirituality (and even then, only in the

Kaula schools). What original Tantra is all about will become clear as you continue reading.

>>99025

http://www.sanskritebooks.org/2014/04/tantric-texts-series-edited-by-arthur-avalon-john-woodroffe/

http://virasadhana.com/

Perhaps I should have posted this question here >>124022